Mike's Oud Forums

Shah-oud

coolsciguy - 10-22-2021 at 12:21 PM

Hi folks,

I recently watched a short documentary on Mustafa said; it's in Arabic and I only understood so much of it yet I enjoyed it.


One of his band members plays an oud but they call it "Shah-oud" "??? ???" which translates to King of oud. Does anyone know what it sounds like? Is it an oud with a deeper sound?

Link of the video:
https://youtu.be/wcB1UIM7Fh0?t=470

The Oud Mustafa plays himself appears to have a deep bowl itself.

dusepo - 10-23-2021 at 03:39 AM

Could it be this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahrud

coolsciguy - 10-23-2021 at 05:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by dusepo  
Could it be this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahrud


Good find, Jo. It's possible though I'm not sure if the wiki info is accurate.

"The word sehrud is of Persian origin, derived from the words sah-i rûd (??????), meaning "king of lutes/large lute."

In persian it translates to "king of rivers" as Rud is the word for River.

Although in the references, there is a link which lead me to this paragraph:

http://azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/54_folder/54_articles/54_...

"Karimov's first attempt at building a replica was for the " rud " (pronunciation rhymes with "food"), a large-bodied, four-stringed instrument made partly of wood and partly of leather. Similar to the "ud," the neck of the rud is longer. The process took several months after much trial and error."

Shahrud is perhaps a more pronounced version of the instrument Rud. Negar Bouban has a video where she plays a long neck oud with a skin top, something similar to what is discussed here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X9DlAvtfAw

majnuunNavid - 10-24-2021 at 12:34 AM

Rud in Farsi refers to intestines or gut used for strings. More precisely, "king of strings".

Hehe, reminds me of John Vergara's shop name "Lord of the Strings", a play on Lord of the Rings. But this is also historically relevant too.

In Farsi we still refer to some instruments by their strings. We have another word for "string tied from one point to another" which is "tar".

Tar
Bam-tar - bass-stringed
Dotar - two-stringed
Setar - three-stringed

Santour - the word "tour" being derived from tar, and "san" from the word for 100.

There is also an instrument called Rud. Rud and Shahrud were likely functionally the same, however Shahrud was larger. Hence in my opinion why it was called "king".

The ensemble Bezmara sought to replicate the Shahrud to recreate medieval the instrumentation used in older Turco-Persian culture.
https://youtu.be/H-XrUBviIbQ

Negar Bouban's instrument is one of the recreations of the instrument builder Ghanbarimehr who invented the design for our modern Barbat.

There are other efforts to reinterpret and create new rud designs like Hossein Alizadeh's "Shourangiz" instrument which is partially made of wood and skin for the membrane. He also has an album with another instrument called "Salaaneh".

I do think Mustafa Said is using their own version of Shahrud, just a large Oud to play more bass perhaps?

coolsciguy - 10-24-2021 at 03:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by majnuunNavid  
Rud in Farsi refers to intestines or gut used for strings. More precisely, "king of strings".

Hehe, reminds me of John Vergara's shop name "Lord of the Strings", a play on Lord of the Rings. But this is also historically relevant too.

In Farsi we still refer to some instruments by their strings. We have another word for "string tied from one point to another" which is "tar".

Tar
Bam-tar - bass-stringed
Dotar - two-stringed
Setar - three-stringed

Santour - the word "tour" being derived from tar, and "san" from the word for 100.

There is also an instrument called Rud. Rud and Shahrud were likely functionally the same, however Shahrud was larger. Hence in my opinion why it was called "king".

The ensemble Bezmara sought to replicate the Shahrud to recreate medieval the instrumentation used in older Turco-Persian culture.
https://youtu.be/H-XrUBviIbQ

Negar Bouban's instrument is one of the recreations of the instrument builder Ghanbarimehr who invented the design for our modern Barbat.

There are other efforts to reinterpret and create new rud designs like Hossein Alizadeh's "Shourangiz" instrument which is partially made of wood and skin for the membrane. He also has an album with another instrument called "Salaaneh".

I do think Mustafa Said is using their own version of Shahrud, just a large Oud to play more bass perhaps?



Well explained, Navid! thanks for the info.
In today's Farsi, gut translates to "Rudeh" and that's why I didn't make the "Rud" connection until you pointed it out.

As you said the "Shah oud" is perhaps the equivalent of "Bam-tar" of the oud. I would like someone who has seen the instrument to confirm this.

Khalil_Oud - 10-24-2021 at 06:58 AM

It may interest some of you, like Navid explained (thank you for the post !):

Andalusian oud (four course oud) are still exist in Maghreb (Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco) as many of you know. The name of this oud in Arabic is : Oud Ramal, Oud 3arbi (Arabic oud), or oud Rouba3i (meaning four course Oud).

I Bring this information because the word 'ramal' means the string (G) [and it means also the rhythm in Poetry...]. Ramal Oud means «the oud that the higher (important) string is Sol (G)», because the Andalusian oud was tuned in different ways :

- Dhil (Do), H’seen (La), maya (Ré) et Ramal (Sol), in this case, we call it Oud Ramal.
- Sometimes, it is tuned : sol si la ré, like in Tunisia (https://oudmigrations.com/2017/08/14/the-oud-of-tunisia/), called oud 3arby.

This oud was 'abounded' in Morocco starting at 1900 because Andalusian musicians preferred the Oriental oud (5 or 6 course), sounds more powerful.. until recently, Carlos Paniagua and omar Mtioui recreated it (https://continuadores.com/laud-ramal-pieza-mayo-2021/)

That means the instruments were named, in most cases, by their strings in the ancient time in all the large 'arabic-persian' region...

coolsciguy - 10-24-2021 at 11:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Khalil_Oud  
It may interest some of you, like Navid explained (thank you for the post !):

Andalusian oud (four course oud) are still exist in Maghreb (Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco) as many of you know. The name of this oud in Arabic is : Oud Ramal, Oud 3arbi (Arabic oud), or oud Rouba3i (meaning four course Oud).

I Bring this information because the word 'ramal' means the string (G) [and it means also the rhythm in Poetry...]. Ramal Oud means «the oud that the higher (important) string is Sol (G)», because the Andalusian oud was tuned in different ways :

- Dhil (Do), H’seen (La), maya (Ré) et Ramal (Sol), in this case, we call it Oud Ramal.
- Sometimes, it is tuned : sol si la ré, like in Tunisia (https://oudmigrations.com/2017/08/14/the-oud-of-tunisia/), called oud 3arby.

This oud was 'abounded' in Morocco starting at 1900 because Andalusian musicians preferred the Oriental oud (5 or 6 course), sounds more powerful.. until recently, Carlos Paniagua and omar Mtioui recreated it (https://continuadores.com/laud-ramal-pieza-mayo-2021/)

That means the instruments were named, in most cases, by their strings in the ancient time in all the large 'arabic-persian' region...


Very interesting, Khalil. Thanks for sharing.