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Looking For : Turkish-style Ud, $200-400

cdroms - 3-8-2023 at 08:04 AM

Hello - Ud newbie here - Does anyone have available something per the title? Happy to pay shipping from anywhere, but located in Philadelphia, PA. Thanks!

coolsciguy - 3-8-2023 at 08:28 AM

Hi cdroms,

Your budget is a little low for a good instrument, however here is one on FB marketplace for sale that looks good:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1145933062745542/

cdroms - 3-8-2023 at 08:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by coolsciguy

Hi cdroms,

Your budget is a little low for a good instrument, however here is one on FB marketplace for sale that looks good:

[url]https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1145933062745542/

[/url]

Thanks for the link, I did not even think to check facebook marketplace!

A couple of the online buying guides I saw suggested that, whereas the cheapo factory-made Arab ouds are unplayably bad, the equivalent Turkish uds are reasonable for beginners. But I am inclined to trust the experience of people on this forum, and I guess you disagree with that assessment?

coolsciguy - 3-8-2023 at 10:17 AM

I once purchased a Turkish oud in the $300 range and it was awful. It was intended to be my first oud and I would have given up had I not purchased another oud. The second one I purchased was a Syrian made Zeryab oud for ~$550 and it was almost twice the price but way way better.

cdroms - 3-8-2023 at 12:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by coolsciguy

I once purchased a Turkish oud in the $300 range and it was awful. It was intended to be my first oud and I would have given up had I not purchased another oud. The second one I purchased was a Syrian made Zeryab oud for ~$550 and it was almost twice the price but way way better.

Syrian made Zeryab as in, Arab style as opposed to Turkish? Why the switch? Is there a significant difference in how it feels to play each type (all I know is the sonic differences, and that Turkish is a bit smaller)...

coolsciguy - 3-8-2023 at 01:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cdroms

It was Turkish made but setup for Arabic tuning. Some of the best Arabic ouds are made in Turkey. What I was trying to imply is that a new oud with $300 price tag from Turkey may look great but not recommended for ease of playing and sound.

cdroms - 3-9-2023 at 11:09 AM

Other than price difference, what should/could I be noticing to differentiate the quality of the above $500 posting from this $375 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1965110617156776/ or even this $260 oud https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/890810225440430/ ?

coolsciguy - 3-9-2023 at 11:43 AM

It's hard to judge qualities just based on pictures and without a sound sample. Even with a sound sample it's tricky as some samples have sound effects and some players know how to make any instrument sound good.

But here are a few specifications from these three ouds that make them separable based on price (judging by images):

$500 oud: note the beautiful sound bowl with alternating ribs and a thin strip between them. Also note the nice finish on the bowl. Ebony fingerboard and tuners. Soundboard seems a higher quality one (uniform in color). The owner posted elsewhere that he paid $800 for this oud.

$375 oud: Same fingerboard and tuners as above, the soundboard looks a lesser quality from above (you can see the grain) and the finish on the bowl is not as intricate as above

$260 oud: lesser quality fingerbord from the two options above and very basic bowl (unfinished).

This doesn't mean that any one would sound better than the other. Also important are the action height and no buzzing among other things. I have heard some cheaper ouds have issues with scale - there are proportions that need to be set accurately and they may not be. It's hard to buy an oud online, it's a hit or miss in most cases. If you buy from a reputable vendor, you may have the option to return if you don't like the instrument. Look up Ethnic Musical or Sala music but focus on their better ouds not the cheaper ones.

Hope this helps

Brian Prunka - 3-9-2023 at 12:31 PM

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1145933062745542/

This oud looks fairly decent. As noted, can't necessarily tell a lot from pictures (for example fiingerboard looks ebony but could be a lesser wood dyed black).

Quote: Originally posted by cdroms

$375 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1965110617156776/

This one looks okay. The wide-grained soundboard is not inherently inferior (it can often even sound superior) but it is considered less desirable by many and so it typically shows up on ouds that are more "budget." Which means that other (less visible) corners may be cut. The notable thing on this oud is that the nut is wood, which will generally make tuning more difficult compared to bone/horn.

Quote:

or even this $260 oud https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/890810225440430/ ?

This oud has plastic pegs, definitely a marker of a cheap instrument. The fingerboard is an inferior wood. The nut looks like it might be bone but given the other characteristics it might be plastic (generally even worse than wood as a material, though it depends on the kind of plastic). One risk in an oud like this that is clearly made to be cheap, is that the wood was not cured properly and may split or have other issues in a short time.

The things that will matter the most as a beginner have to do with tuning and playability:

• Are the pegs a good wood (generally roosewood or ebony) and well-made, well-fitted
• Is the nut well-made and of a durable, hard material (generally bone or horn)
• Is the action playable and relatively consistent (low as possible at the nut, no more than 3mm at the neck joint, no dead notes or significant buzzing).

Quote:

A couple of the online buying guides I saw suggested that, whereas the cheapo factory-made Arab ouds are unplayably bad, the equivalent Turkish uds are reasonable for beginners. But I am inclined to trust the experience of people on this forum, and I guess you disagree with that assessment?

This used to be more true, but the Zeryab factory has changed this landscape quite a bit. The Sukar factory always made good ouds. Egyptian factories were hit and miss but have always produced penty of good ouds (it was just unpredictable if you couldn't play it first), the general quality has gotten more reliable I've found. Still, there's an element of truth to this and if you are trying to buy a super-cheap instrument with no experience, your odds are probably better with a Turkish-made oud than an Arab one. Turkey is producing many Arab-style ouds these days, though, so it's not necessary to get a "Turkish" style oud even going this route.

I would generally regard around $500 as the minimum amount where someone in the US should plan on spending for a beginner/student oud. Of course, one could get lucky, particularly with a used oud that someone gave up on.

I second coolsciguy in saying that Ethnic Musical and Sala Musik are pretty reliable retailers of new instruments, and their prices are decent.

These ouds from Sala are all in your price range and seem likely improvements over the ones listed, but above (though the first one seems comparable).
https://salamuzik.com/collections/turkish-oud/products/turkish-mahog...
https://salamuzik.com/collections/turkish-oud/products/turkish-oud-a...
https://salamuzik.com/collections/turkish-oud/products/turkish-handm...

cdroms - 3-10-2023 at 05:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by coolsciguy

It's hard to judge qualities just based on pictures and without a sound sample. Even with a sound sample it's tricky as some samples have sound effects and some players know how to make any instrument sound good.
...

Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1145933062745542/

This oud looks fairly decent. As noted, can't necessarily tell a lot from pictures (for example fiingerboard looks ebony but could be a lesser wood dyed black).
...

Thank you both, this is all extremely helpful!

cdroms - 4-2-2023 at 01:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by coolsciguy

The owner posted elsewhere that he paid $800 for this oud.

If you happen to see this, do you remember where the owner (Vale Ann) posted elsewhere about this oud? Here is the facebook marketplace post for reference: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1297620880817322/?ref=sear...

I'm asking because I gave this guy a 'down payment' in advance of him flying into my city for unrelated reasons and bringing the instrument with him for me to pick up, but as the date approaches I'm starting to think I might have been scammed.

coolsciguy - 4-2-2023 at 01:48 PM

Keep your faith, cdroms. Here is the link to his other post:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2418931004810417/permalink/595141949...

cdroms - 4-2-2023 at 04:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by coolsciguy

Keep your faith, cdroms. Here is the link to his other post:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2418931004810417/permalink/595141949...

OH!!! Thank you! This is great!

As for the person in that thread saying it looks like a lavta... lavta has frets, right? So it's just the angle of the first photo makes the neck look a bit long, I guess...

coolsciguy - 4-2-2023 at 05:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cdroms

My pleasure! It's definitely an oud. Lavtas apparently come fretless as well but this is certainly an oud.

cdroms - 4-11-2023 at 11:06 AM

Well, this Vale Ann character is definitely a scam artist. I'm not sure why you would use an oud of all things as the basis for facebook-marketplace-based fraud, it doesn't seem like a high-traffic category. My guess is they did at one point actually have the pictured instrument.

Anyway, it went like this: they're an 8-hour drive from me, so I (first mistake) suggested that I might pay for shipping instead of making the drive. They said they happened to be flying into my city (Philadelphia) next month anyway, so if I was willing to wait, they would bring the oud with them and save me money. But, since it was a month away and they had other interested buyers, I would have to send a deposit - half the total agreed-upon cost, then I'd pay the rest once they flew over. OK, maybe this was a little fishy already. They had me use cashapp instead of venmo or paypal, which I didn't realize at the time would make it much harder to claim fraud and get my money back (still working on this, fingers crossed). A few days before their supposed flight they asked that I send the rest of the money beforehand, that they wouldn't bring the oud with them otherwise. I pointed out that that wasn't what we had agreed, but that if they really wanted we could re-do the whole purchase on paypal with buyer protection. They ignored both of these points and kept insisting. Now they're keeping my deposit supposedly because of the time they spent holding onto the instrument instead of selling it to someone else. By now I have no doubt that they never had any intention of actually exchanging a real musical instrument for money. Overall I think there were some warning signs early on and I was fairly naive, but I've also never experienced something like this.

All that is to say I'm still looking for / deciding on an oud, if anyone has anything they're interested in selling, or any leads not already mentioned in this thread. And probably more in the $4-500 range based on what I now understand is reasonable pricing for a half-decent instrument.

coolsciguy - 4-11-2023 at 12:00 PM

I am sorry to hear about your experience. This truly sucks. Let's report them on the FB marketplace so they can't redo what they did to you.

Brian Prunka - 4-11-2023 at 12:46 PM

That's unfortunate. FB Marketplace seems like it doesn't have much in the way of buyer protection so it's ripe for dishonest actors to take advantage.

cdroms - 4-12-2023 at 04:50 AM

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/576132791329443/

Well if any knowledgeable person happens to feel inclined to comment on this one... (and I should add this one's well within driving distance for me...)

+ : bowl with alternating ribs and thin strips, the wood tuning pegs...
- : wood grain visible on the face (maybe a bad sign? maybe not), plus is the nut definitely wood? or could bone or horn look like that in a photo?

So I lean on 'probably not a very good instrument but may be worth driving out to see'? But they say they paid $650 for it, does it seem like they basically overpaid based on the apparent quality of the instrument?

coolsciguy - 4-12-2023 at 06:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by cdroms

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/576132791329443/

Well if any knowledgeable person happens to feel inclined to comment on this one... (and I should add this one's well within driving distance for me...)

+ : bowl with alternating ribs and thin strips, the wood tuning pegs...
- : wood grain visible on the face (maybe a bad sign? maybe not), plus is the nut definitely wood? or could bone or horn look like that in a photo?

So I lean on 'probably not a very good instrument but may be worth driving out to see'? But they say they paid $650 for it, does it seem like they basically overpaid based on the apparent quality of the instrument?

This looks like a fairly low quality oud, and doesn't look so Turkish either. For $650 one can get a fairly ok oud directly from Turkey (ethnic musical, Sala, etc), or a solid syrian Zeryab oud. This one doesn't compare to either.

cdroms - 4-12-2023 at 06:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by coolsciguy

Quote: Originally posted by cdroms

OK, thanks for your assessment! Very helpful. I will probably end up going the Sala route, and regret not having done so in the first place...

teslim - 4-12-2023 at 07:22 AM

just for your information , i have ordered the 399 ouds for students from sala , they are very good quality, nice pegs ,finish and sound and playability, and shipping is free and sala backs everything they sell. i would highly recommend them

Brian Prunka - 4-12-2023 at 02:38 PM

I agree with coolsciguy. This oud might be pretty decent, hard to tell, but doesn't inspire confidence. 650 doesn't seem wildly unreasonable to me, but at that price you can probably get something better direct from Turkey.

If you were an accomplished player, I'd say it doesn't hurt to go check it out — maybe it's hidden gem! But as a beginner you probably won't really be able to assess whether this oud is worth more than it appears.