Mike's Oud Forums

Best performance microphone for the ud?

Johnnyboy - 3-29-2023 at 12:35 PM

Hello all,

I have a Maurice Shehata ud and am playing with an orchestra soon. I have trouble finding a suitable performance microphone that clearly picks up every note on my deep sounding ud despite fiddling a lot with the sound mixer.

Does anyone have any positive experiences with certain performance mics for the ud? Any recommendations?

Brian Prunka - 3-29-2023 at 01:10 PM

Mic placement is important. Don’t put it directly pointed at the sound hole, it will be too boomy.

Many mics work well. A regular sm57 is very good usually. Sennheiser md 421 is a more hi-fi mic in a similar vein.

Condensers can work well, usually a small diaphragm is best for stage.
They’re often very bright and pick up more stage noise, they require more finesse but have the clearest sound in the right hands. Used carelessly they are prone to feedback and noise. I’ve gotten good results with Telefunken, Neumann, Shure and others.

Johnnyboy - 3-30-2023 at 04:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka  
Mic placement is important. Don’t put it directly pointed at the sound hole, it will be too boomy.

Many mics work well. A regular sm57 is very good usually. Sennheiser md 421 is a more hi-fi mic in a similar vein.

Condensers can work well, usually a small diaphragm is best for stage.
They’re often very bright and pick up more stage noise, they require more finesse but have the clearest sound in the right hands. Used carelessly they are prone to feedback and noise. I’ve gotten good results with Telefunken, Neumann, Shure and others.


Thanks for the advice. I thought condensers are only really suitable studio recordings because of their high sensitivity. I already have an AKG P420.

Jody Stecher - 3-30-2023 at 06:30 AM

I have used condenser microphones on stage in a band context on oud and other string instruments with no problem at all. A competent sound tech person will know how to use it.

Brian Prunka - 3-30-2023 at 07:15 AM

The AKG P420 is a large diaphragm condenser. These don’t usually work well on stage. Typical SDCs for stage are Telefunken M60 or M260, Neuman KM84 or KM184, Shure SM81, AKG C451B
There are also a lot of copies of these mic designs nowadays for less money.

Johnnyboy - 4-2-2023 at 01:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher  
I have used condenser microphones on stage in a band context on oud and other string instruments with no problem at all. A competent sound tech person will know how to use it.


Thanks, but just to make sure; these mics are even suited when playing in an orchestra?

Jody Stecher - 4-2-2023 at 06:06 AM

I don't know the answer.

Brian Prunka - 4-2-2023 at 07:45 AM

An orchestra is fine. The situation you’d run into more trouble would be a pop context—if there is a drum set and/or electric bass you will face a hard time with any microphones and should probably look into a pickup or a clip-on mic of some kind.

maraoud108 - 4-2-2023 at 06:46 PM

Mics are a whole world, with each mic acting differently depending on the situation.

Some mics sound great in some context, in other contexts they're awful.

The singer in one group I play in has often been presented with really high-end mics at festival concerts and
nice concert halls. $2000 microphones that sound great for some singers. But again and again the mic that sounds best on her voice is a Shure SM58 that costs $100.

With acoustic instruments it no different.

For this gig I would recommend a Neumann KM184 condenser. But I would also ask the engineer what they have and what they would recommend.

Khalil_Oud - 4-3-2023 at 06:49 PM


Hi Jonnybody,
All the caveat listen above are very important.
I' ve used many mics, especially condensers on stage (KM 184, Rode NT 55....), they are the best if well placed on the stage\oud and if the soud-man is used to use them).
For the last 5 to 6 years, I'm using the DPA 4099 (after having used the 4011 in a studio and loved it !). Despite the price, the soud is simply pure !
The 'problem' is the to find a way to put it on the oud : all the clips available on the DPA website are for other instruments : violin, sax... nothing for the oud. I bought the 'clamp mount (CM4099) but it's too hard for the oud (soundboard wood).

1- In this videos, you can see the Tareq aljundi using this mic (but in my opinion it's not the right way)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIjY4uajsZs
2- othe better positioning : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xys2VW-ubQ&list=RD-Xys2VW-ubQ&a... (you can here the quality even it's pointed at the sound hole).
3- in this video, you can see where and how I put in on my oud (I'm using a clip for audiotechnica, changed in a way to accept this mic: not optimal, but better than sticking it on the oud, I think...) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKsjskVq3VE

The advantage with this 'clip mic' is that you can move the oud withount loosing the sound like with the fixed-on-support mics (KM184...), But without forgetting it's a condenser mic !

coolsciguy - 4-4-2023 at 08:41 AM

Hi Khalil,

It was a treat watching you perform with your trio and listening to your Bach performance. Thanks for sharing!

Khalil_Oud - 4-5-2023 at 09:25 AM


Thank you Coolsciguy !

Brian Prunka - 4-5-2023 at 11:47 AM

Thanks for sharing Khalil! Nice to hear your performance.

I’ve been thinking about getting a DPA myself, the whole problem of attaching it has kept me from doing it. I hate the idea of using tape etc. on a nice oud.

If the oud has no rosettes, I could see a clip like that working though.

I tried another mic (Myers) that attaches with a suction cup; it sounded good but it had a tendency to loosen and fall off mid-performance.



Khalil_Oud - 4-6-2023 at 08:54 PM

Thank you Brian !

Yes it's a problem with the attaching the DPA on a quality ouds..., unfortunately. As you say, with a no rosette oud, i can still use it with my 'home-made' system, if not, no chance !
I've heard about the Myers mic, too bad if it loose ! Thanks !

MattOud - 4-7-2023 at 05:17 AM

This (Bouree in Em) was my favourite classical song growing up and is still one of my favourites. To hear it again on the OUD is amazing.
Great performance!
Cheers,
Matt

maraoud108 - 4-7-2023 at 08:47 AM

One other thing I've been thinking about in regards to this.

There's an electric guitar called a Fender Jaguar that's the sound of "surf" guitar. You can hear it in all the Morricone soundtracks and the Twin Peaks and Better Call Saul theme songs. Anyhow, one of the switches on it is called the "Strangle" switch. It basically cuts the low end and makes the guitar sound rather thin.

A lot of people repurpose this switch, or think it's useless, because the fullness of the guitar gets lost. But it comes in really really handy when you're trying to cut through a band and make a melody stand out, because all the low frequencies are gone. It focuses the sound.

I was thinking that this may also work with the oud. Certainly we want to have a full rich sound with solo taqsim. But perhaps cutting some of the "richness" in sound, perhaps with a high pass filter, will actually help the instrument to stand out more when you're sonically competing with an orchestra.

Khalil_Oud - 4-8-2023 at 07:15 AM
Quote:
This (Bouree in Em) was my favourite classical song growing up and is still one of my favourites. To hear it again on the OUD is amazing.
Great performance!


Thanks Matt ! glade to hear that

Khalil

Johnnyboy - 5-4-2023 at 10:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Khalil_Oud  

Hi Jonnybody,
All the caveat listen above are very important.
I' ve used many mics, especially condensers on stage (KM 184, Rode NT 55....), they are the best if well placed on the stage\oud and if the soud-man is used to use them).
For the last 5 to 6 years, I'm using the DPA 4099 (after having used the 4011 in a studio and loved it !). Despite the price, the soud is simply pure !
The 'problem' is the to find a way to put it on the oud : all the clips available on the DPA website are for other instruments : violin, sax... nothing for the oud. I bought the 'clamp mount (CM4099) but it's too hard for the oud (soundboard wood).

1- In this videos, you can see the Tareq aljundi using this mic (but in my opinion it's not the right way)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIjY4uajsZs
2- othe better positioning : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xys2VW-ubQ&list=RD-Xys2VW-ubQ&a... (you can here the quality even it's pointed at the sound hole).
3- in this video, you can see where and how I put in on my oud (I'm using a clip for audiotechnica, changed in a way to accept this mic: not optimal, but better than sticking it on the oud, I think...) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKsjskVq3VE

The advantage with this 'clip mic' is that you can move the oud withount loosing the sound like with the fixed-on-support mics (KM184...), But without forgetting it's a condenser mic !


Thanks a lot for the detailed info and showing your great performance.

I'm on a low budget so I'm considering the m57 now. Hopefully it will suit my needs.

hpskurdal - 5-17-2023 at 01:01 AM

I´m also looking for the best way to use the DPA mic on the oud. As I found that attaching the mic to the soundboard altered the sound, the solution became to use 2 stripes of 3M dual lock tape on the bowl. I works - the mic is close to Khaili´s - and it´s easy to alter, take on/off. I have accepted to stripes of black tape on the back of my oud´s, and don´t know how easy it will be to remove the tape.