Mike's Oud Forums

Wittner pegs

coolsciguy - 3-30-2023 at 05:24 PM

Hi folks,

I am looking into converting my regular pegs to Wittner finetune pegs and looking for some general feedback.

- Are they worth the ~$300 cost?
- Are they long lasting?
- Can one with elementary to moderate woodworking skills install them? it seems all one needs is a Japanese saw and a reamer.


I also looked into Pegheads and it seems that the owner is retiring soon. Cost is generally comparable.

Thanks!


PS: The subject of Wittner pegs has been discussed on the forum before but all posts are too old.

bulerias1981 - 4-9-2023 at 03:03 PM

I stopped using Wittner pegs as I've had the mechanism break on some of my clients over the years, only for them to bring them back to me. I began using "Pegheds" and now install them on all my high end instruments. I made a video showcasing them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p7OWyCfp-U&ab_channel=LuthierJo...

coolsciguy - 4-9-2023 at 03:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bulerias1981  
I stopped using Wittner pegs as I've had the mechanism break on some of my clients over the years, only for them to bring them back to me. I began using "Pegheds" and now install them on all my high end instruments. I made a video showcasing them.



Hi John,

Thanks for your note. I actually watched your Peghead video a few days ago as part of my research. I really enjoy your Youtube channel.

Pegheads appear more robust than Wittner as you wrote. Chuck Herin who is the man behind Peghead company is retiring and his stock won't be renewed. So I thought if I won't have access to him in near future, I might as well get used to installing Wittner pegs.

Cheers

Amir

MattOud - 4-10-2023 at 04:35 PM

I want to have these installed one day in both my current oud's because I don't enjoy the current system. I find i am too tense when tuning sometimes. It would be nice to upgrade to these. Sorry that peghead is retiring and will not be a source to try. I hope wittner learns from potential fail points and fixes their mechanics if necessary...
I trust John's assessment! John are these super difficult to install?
Cheers,
Matt

coolsciguy - 4-10-2023 at 04:47 PM

Hi Matt,

Just to clarify, peghead has pegs in stock now, yet he wont be making more when he runs out.

Brian Prunka - 4-10-2023 at 07:18 PM

From what I understand, the Peghed design is licensed to Knilling.
Even if Chuck Herin is retiring, I can't imagine that Knilling will stop making them. I'm not sure if there is a quality difference between the original version and the Knilling version - I seem to remember Chuck telling me there was, but I don't recall.


bulerias1981 - 4-11-2023 at 06:21 PM

Matt,

I wouldn't say they are easy to install. The holes need to be reamed, the peg shaft is threaded multiple times to get the depth correct, then the end is cut and rounded off, the threading gets a bead of glue and needs to be threaded back in. In some cases you'd need to fill the hole first with CA glue to build up thickness.

coolsciguy - 4-12-2023 at 04:00 AM

Hi John,

Thanks for the explanation. Between Pegheads and Wittners, is there a difference in level of difficulty for installing?

bulerias1981 - 4-12-2023 at 03:02 PM

I'd say Wittner is slightly easier to install. They are not threaded in. There are 4 vertical notches with the shaft. The ends will need to be cut and rounded off as well. But they aren't threaded in like Peghed.. another feature that I really like about them.

coolsciguy - 4-12-2023 at 05:56 PM

Thanks John. I am thinking about ordering a reamer and 8.6mm Wittner violin pegs; according to Wittner charts they should fit my oud.

MattOud - 4-13-2023 at 07:03 AM

It would be nice to have a few pegheads(and by this I mean headstocks, not pegs, although the pegs would be nice as well) to practice reaming on... so as not to mess up an OUD( bites nails)... or a video to help with the install!
I'm fortunate because I have a luthier close to me in North York who has installed wittners and I've talk to him before about possibly installing on mine when I get up to parting with an Oud long enough for an install...
However, I think it is cool you want to give it a go Amir and I feel I would love to do the same one day!
Maybe video document the process for future and for forum members brave enough to try.
You bring up a good point as well...how does one determine the proper peg size for their headstock/peghead?
Matt

Brian Prunka - 4-13-2023 at 07:29 AM

I haven't installed Wittners or Pegheds but have installed a number of sets of traditional pegs — the thing to know about reamers is they can remove a lot of wood very quickly! It's easy to make the holes bigger but you can't make them smaller, so my advice is go slow and keep testing the fit.

coolsciguy - 4-13-2023 at 08:00 AM

Hi Matt and Brian,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

Indeed fitting pegs is a bit scary but I think maintenance/tasks like this should be in everyone's toolbox as access to an oud luthier is difficult for most of us. My oud is not that expensive either so risking and learning on it is worth the experience, I think.

Brian, I have considered fitting regular pegs before attempting Wittners, this way at least one doesn't risk a financial loss on the expensive pegs - on top of the risk for messing up one's oud!. I believe getting a good peg shaver and a reamer is the key to success and an investment on it's own.


Matt, there are some good videos on youtube on the subject of Wittner pegs, mostly for violins. The principal for installing remains the same. There are one or two videos for ouds as well. I have not figured the size out completely yet, but will update when/if I give it a go!


hans - 6-16-2023 at 07:25 AM

I don't know if an answer is still needed here, but I have installed Wittners on three ouds. I didn't have to ream anything because i used a trick i learned from my teacher, which is using small pieces of sanding paper. the rough side of the paper touches the wood of the inside of the pegholes. if you do it correctly the pegs are tight enough in the holes so they won't budge (if that's the correct term)

coolsciguy - 6-16-2023 at 10:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by hans  
I don't know if an answer is still needed here, but I have installed Wittners on three ouds. I didn't have to ream anything because i used a trick i learned from my teacher, which is using small pieces of sanding paper. the rough side of the paper touches the wood of the inside of the pegholes. if you do it correctly the pegs are tight enough in the holes so they won't budge (if that's the correct term)


Very smart, Hans! thanks for the advice. Do you remember what size Wittner pegs you used for your projects?

hans - 6-16-2023 at 12:37 PM

they were the viola pegs. the violin ones are too small.

to answer the question that started this thread: i think they are worth it, the wittners. i have one oud with regular pegs and obviously it works, but compared to wittners i find them really annoying

coolsciguy - 6-17-2023 at 03:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by hans  
they were the viola pegs. the violin ones are too small.

to answer the question that started this thread: i think they are worth it, the wittners. i have one oud with regular pegs and obviously it works, but compared to wittners i find them really annoying


Thank you Hans, with Viola pegs it would cost around $300 for 12 pegs. I am sure I'll get around to change my pegs one day and will post my experience here.