Mike's Oud Forums

Strings for 57cm oud

coolsciguy - 8-18-2023 at 11:47 AM

Hi folks,

I have a fixed bridge 57cm oud that was originally tuned to Ff Iraqi tuning. I'd like to experiment with it and tune it to EABead standard turkish tuning.

Problem is most strings in the market are for 58.5 cm ouds and they would feel floppy on my shorter oud. Apart from ordering a custom set, I could get a low tension Cc set and tune all strings up a whole step (possibly putting too much pressure on the neck). Is there a third option that I am missing?

Thanks

Jody Stecher - 8-18-2023 at 01:40 PM

I've used the same set(s) of strings for C Arabic tuning on ouds with scales of 63, 62, 61, 61.5, 60 and 58.5cm. The difference was tighter and looser but never loose enough to be floppy. I think your favorite Turkish/Armenian EABead set will be just fine at 57cm.

coolsciguy - 8-18-2023 at 06:37 PM

Great point, Jody. I do have a set that I can put on, we will see how it goes.

I'd really like to see a 63cm scale oud someday, I can imagine it should be much harder to play than a 58.5 that I am used to!

kampanas - 8-19-2023 at 03:56 AM

I’ve found that tuning E - d using ‘medium tension’ Turkish PVF strings on a 58.5cm oud can be a little bit too much tension, pulling the action higher. You may find the 57cm takes some of that unnecessary pressure off.

Khalil_Oud - 8-19-2023 at 05:35 AM

Hi CoolSciguy
The other solution is to use the string calculator (Pyramid or Kurschner calculator), or ask someone to do it for you...

I agree that pyramid string will be more expensive, but I think it's the right way to proceed in this case (?)"

Or, for the Kurschner strings, they have a lists of tensions for every set on their official website, you can choose one that can be convenient for you (close to what you want as a tension) , us recommended by Jody. The liste is here [https://1517670593.jimdo.com/saiten-nach-instrumenten-strings-for-instruments/aoud-oud/aoud-oud-ud-fluorcarbon/]

Hope it will help

Khalil

coolsciguy - 8-19-2023 at 10:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by kampanas  
I’ve found that tuning E - d using ‘medium tension’ Turkish PVF strings on a 58.5cm oud can be a little bit too much tension, pulling the action higher. You may find the 57cm takes some of that unnecessary pressure off.


Great point, kampanas! Thank you.

coolsciguy - 8-19-2023 at 10:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Khalil_Oud  
Hi CoolSciguy
The other solution is to use the string calculator (Pyramid or Kurschner calculator), or ask someone to do it for you...

I agree that pyramid string will be more expensive, but I think it's the right way to proceed in this case (?)"

Or, for the Kurschner strings, they have a lists of tensions for every set on their official website, you can choose one that can be convenient for you (close to what you want as a tension) , us recommended by Jody. The liste is here [https://1517670593.jimdo.com/saiten-nach-instrumenten-strings-for-instruments/aoud-oud/aoud-oud-ud-fluorcarbon/]

Hope it will help

Khalil


Thank you for this response, Khalil. Yesterday I did a bit of playing around with few calculators online and realized that the tension difference between 57 and 58.5 cm oud is not that considerable if both used the same string (something like 0.1 kg). I'll save your link somewhere as it's hard to dig up on google.

ChanningPDX - 12-3-2023 at 01:46 PM

I have a 57 cm Kamil Gül zenne oud that I tune D (or E) ABEAD. Right now I have the new-ish LaBella Vivace oud strings in Turkish tuning (i.e. EABEAD) on them, and they work pretty well. I don't think I'd be all that comfortable using them on a 58.5 cm scale, honestly. The two highest PVF courses are surprisingly thick compared to the medium-tension Kurschner P-109 strings and Arab 2 strings I use on my 58.5 cm ouds. On a 57 inch scale, the tension doesn't feel excessive, though.

coolsciguy - 12-3-2023 at 03:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ChanningPDX  
I have a 57 cm Kamil Gül zenne oud that I tune D (or E) ABEAD. Right now I have the new-ish LaBella Vivace oud strings in Turkish tuning (i.e. EABEAD) on them, and they work pretty well. I don't think I'd be all that comfortable using them on a 58.5 cm scale, honestly. The two highest PVF courses are surprisingly thick compared to the medium-tension Kurschner P-109 strings and Arab 2 strings I use on my 58.5 cm ouds. On a 57 inch scale, the tension doesn't feel excessive, though.


Thank you Channing, good to have you back here! I ended up putting Aurora strings on my 57cm oud and it really sings. Have you tried LaBella Vivace Cc on any of your ouds? Is it worth the price tag?

ChanningPDX - 12-20-2023 at 05:00 PM

Hi, Amir!

Yeah, I don't check in around here all that regularly these days. I've been too busy going down other new and old musical rabbit holes. (One of the new ones happens to be setar, which I think you mentioned at one point you also play.*)

I was warned by a professional oud player whose opinions I respect that in his opinion, the trebles on the Vivace string sets were heavier than he liked for a 58.5 scale oud, so I've never tried them on either of my 58.5 scale ouds. On my Dimitris Rapakousious oud, which I keep in low/Arabic tuning (DGAdgc), I usually use either the Kürschner or green Volume Arab 2 string sets, which I think sound great (for a more Turkish-ish sound, anyway... YMMV). I think I tried the Aurora strings once a while back, and I just noticed they're putting out some higher-end "Lute" strings now. Might have to give them another whirl.

*Not to hijack this thread, but I wonder how many other setar players we have here on the forum? I'm sure there are more than a few. I think it might be time to set up another forum category for "oud-adjacent" instruments for people who play and/or are curious about instruments like setar, tar, shourangiz, ba?lama, buzuq, lâvta, etc.

coolsciguy - 12-21-2023 at 04:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ChanningPDX  
Hi, Amir!

(One of the new ones happens to be setar, which I think you mentioned at one point you also play.*)

I was warned by a professional oud player whose opinions I respect that in his opinion, the trebles on the Vivace string sets were heavier than he liked for a 58.5 scale oud, so I've never tried them on either of my 58.5 scale ouds.

*Not to hijack this thread, but I wonder how many other setar players we have here on the forum? I'm sure there are more than a few. I think it might be time to set up another forum category for "oud-adjacent" instruments for people who play and/or are curious about instruments like setar, tar, shourangiz, ba?lama, buzuq, lâvta, etc.



Hi Channing,

Great to hear about your new obsession! And yes, I do dabble with Setar; it would be wonderful to have our own little corner here on the forum. I'll try to contact some of the mods :)

Thanks for your advice regarding strings. What you pointed out about some strings having Turkish-ish profile is perhaps because of the PVF trebls. It's what most Iranian oudist use to play Persian music (I exclusively use PVF on all my ouds). I wish they were a bit more accessible/affordable haha! Most vendors are overseas!





coolsciguy - 2-2-2024 at 08:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ChanningPDX  


I was warned by a professional oud player whose opinions I respect that in his opinion, the trebles on the Vivace string sets were heavier than he liked for a 58.5 scale oud, so I've never tried them on either of my 58.5 scale ouds. .


It appears that Labella Vivace PVF package has cc and gg strings that are precisely the same thickness as their classical guitar set (e and b strings; .024in and .027in ). Perhaps their decision to include thicker than normal strings in their oud set was economical more than anything else.