Mike's Oud Forums

Bashir recordings pre-floating bridge or high f

kampanas - 4-25-2024 at 10:14 AM

Does anyone know of recordings on ouds in the lower tuning and/or before the floating bridge became a thing by these two musicians?

Not being specific as to which Bashir, because I’m not sure about timelines and Jamil tuned to G (I think).

I’m curious if their playing style followed the changes.

Jody Stecher - 4-25-2024 at 05:04 PM

Pre-floating bridge recordings of Munir Bashir's oud playing would be interesting to hear. Low tuned oud recordings of Jamil Bashir would be amazing to hear. I've never thought of this and I'm glad you did.

Jamil Bashir played a fixed bridge oud. He did tune to G. I have seen about 10 photos of him, always with a fixed bridge oud. And his sound does not resemble the sound of a floating bridge oud. I have never seen a photo of him playing a floating bridge oud.

The playing style of Jamil is a natural outcome of his study with Sherif Muhiddin Haydar Targan. One can hear the sound and style of Targan in the playing of Jamil Bashir. The teacher's influence is less obvious in the playing of Munir Bashir. Did his playing change because he began using a floating bridge oud? I think he had new ideas and the floating bridge oud facilitated his musical ideas.



Quote: Originally posted by kampanas  
Does anyone know of recordings on ouds in the lower tuning and/or before the floating bridge became a thing by these two musicians?

Not being specific as to which Bashir, because I’m not sure about timelines and Jamil tuned to G (I think).

I’m curious if their playing style followed the changes.

ameer - 6-1-2024 at 06:35 AM

You can look to the recordings where they would accompany singers to begin to answer this. At a glance there's this one where Jamil is on violin and Munir is on oud according to the video description. I'm aware of a couple others but don't have them handy. I'll dig around and post them.

Jody Stecher - 6-1-2024 at 01:35 PM

Wow. This, for me anyway, is a missing link. I would not have guessed the identity of the oud player. There is enough of Jamil's musical voice in his violin that I can connect it to his oud playing. But I never before heard this kind of oud playing from Munir Bashir. Thanks, Ameer!
Quote: Originally posted by ameer  
You can look to the recordings where they would accompany singers to begin to answer this. At a glance there's this one where Jamil is on violin and Munir is on oud according to the video description. I'm aware of a couple others but don't have them handy. I'll dig around and post them.

ameer - 6-9-2024 at 01:45 AM

Glad to be of service. Here is another radio concert featuring Jamil on violin and Munir on oud.
part 1
part 2

Jody Stecher - 6-9-2024 at 03:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ameer  
Glad to be of service. Here is another radio concert featuring Jamil on violin and Munir on oud.
part 1
part 2


Thank you! I would not have guessed the identity of the players had they not been announced at the start. I'm noticing that Munir has a high F course here. I don't know if he ever tuned with cc as the highest tuned course.

ameer - 6-9-2024 at 03:34 PM

Assuming that it is in fact Munir in this recording then the answer seems to be occasionally.

Jody Stecher - 6-9-2024 at 09:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ameer  
Assuming that it is in fact Munir in this recording then the answer seems to be occasionally.


Wow. The percussive style suggests earlier times.

ameer - 6-10-2024 at 09:55 PM

Another recording labeled as Jamil and Munir with no high F.

Brian Prunka - 6-11-2024 at 09:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ameer  
Another recording labeled as Jamil and Munir with no high F.


Assuming this is correctly labeled, what a fascinating find.

Jody Stecher - 6-11-2024 at 03:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ameer  
Another recording labeled as Jamil and Munir with no high F.


The violinist sounds a bit different to me on each of these clips. Different vibrato and dynamics. That doesn't mean it isn't all Jamil.

The right hand of the oud player seems the same on each. The same "attack". On this one the fast compressed flourishes of many notes are reminiscent of Munir of more recent times. The use of silences is here but in a different way. So I think the claim that this is Munir Bashir is credible.
This is very much appreciated, Ameer.

ameer - 6-16-2024 at 01:00 PM

Another angle worth looking at is Munir Bashir's collaborations with Fairuz, I believe around 1954. Here are two songs back to back.

ameer - 6-16-2024 at 01:19 PM

Also: Ya Helu Ya Amar and Ya Hnayina. Both of these sometimes get labeled as being composed by Munir Bashir which as far as I know is incorrect.

Jody Stecher - 6-17-2024 at 11:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ameer  
Another angle worth looking at is Munir Bashir's collaborations with Fairuz, I believe around 1954. Here are two songs back to back.


The oud tone on these suggests a floating bridge oud. At first I thought it was a guitar. But it's obviously double strings and fretless.

Consensus opinion is that Munir Bashir began using a floating bridge oud during his time in Beirut in the 50s. This recording seems to confirm that.