Feynfou - 7-18-2005 at 09:47 AM
Hello friends,
I am trying to learn the (very?) well known longa of Riad al sunbati. However I don't want to learn it "wrong".
So i would very much appreciate if any of the more advanced of you could tell me which finger plays which note (the most difficult being those "high"
notes)
Thank you for your help! Regards to all,
Feynfou
the sheet
Feynfou - 7-18-2005 at 09:49 AM
ouuuups, here's the sheet
revaldo29 - 7-18-2005 at 10:32 AM
Could you post a sound file please?
Feynfou - 7-18-2005 at 10:49 AM
here's a video of the great Afif- God bless his hands 
revaldo29 - 7-18-2005 at 12:56 PM
Haha, good luck with that bro. I could get it down if I had a few weeks to spend on it but probably not at that tempo that Afif is taking it. Way over
my head!
TruePharaoh21 - 7-18-2005 at 01:43 PM
Feynfou,
I played this longa with Afif a couple of months ago at a rehearsal we had (needless to say, it was very fun). I wouldn't really stress about what the
correct finger is to use at which high note and such. On the higher-pitched C strings, for example... if Afif is higher up on the string, he will work
his way down on the same string. Sometimes when I play, I'll work from the C strings to the G pair, without moving back down the neck... it helps
especially near the end of the longa when you're trying to get all the right notes at a pretty fast pace. Afif and I discussed this for a few moments,
and the same discussion comes up in different songs, though the conclusion we reach varies from time to time.
Which means... it's all a matter of preference. I'm not sure if there really a "correct" way of doing it. From what I've seen, though... if you just
want to work your way down quickly on the C pair while executing that drop in what is labelled above as IV, pinky on G, pinky slides back to F, middle
finger to E-flat, index to D...
As for the tempo, yes, Afif is quite fast, but you could get there by listening to some other renditions of the longa and then moving to this one. For
example, I believe the Ziryab Trio does this longa... try playing along with them. Or... Amazing Slow Downer!
TP21
Feynfou - 7-18-2005 at 02:21 PM
Hello TP21!
Thank you very much for your answer. Since there's no "wrong" way to play, I'll try just as you say to work my way out and have FUN
However I wanted to post this question, since I am a beginner (1 year) and I am used to the "finger notation" system with my teacher....but now I
don't have a teacher any more and I have to do things by my own....
One last thing TP21 : If you see Afif once again, could you please tell him that a young oud player in Berlin (Germany) really appreciates his
playing? Thank you
Feynfou
cshrem - 7-18-2005 at 02:32 PM
Where can I leanr to read sheet like that^^
Brian Prunka - 7-18-2005 at 03:05 PM
Hey Feynfou,
TP is right that there are many ways to play this, but you should be aware of a general concept of position shifiting: regardless of what finger is
playing the note, it's always the first (index) finger that is shifting. Meaning, don't try to shift by getting your third or fourth finger to the
right note; shift by getting your first finger where it needs to be and then the rest of the fingers will be in the correct position automatically (or
they will be if you practice this way). For instance, if you want to get your pinky to G on your high C string, then the actual shift is to have your
index finger on E (E F F# G = 1 2 3 4), if you want to have your 3rd finger on G, then the shift is index finger on F. Practicing this way will make
your position shifts very precise and your intonation consistent.
A good way to practice is to slide your first finger and get used to feeling the change in position. Try playing a C minor scale on the first string
this way:
0--1--2--1--3--1--3--4
C--D-Eb-F--G-Ab-B--C
and use the same fingering back down. you'll notice that your first finger always skips at least one or two notes in the scale when you shift; this
is so you don't have to shift on every note. There are other possible ways to finger things, depending on the specific musical passage (for instance
if you have to go to the high D, you need to shift on the B or C).
you can practice the position shifts with slides like this
C--D-Eb-D--slide--F--G--F--slide-Ab-B--C-Ab--slide--F--G--F--slide--D-etc.
0--1--2--1--slide--1--3--1--slide--1--3--4--1--slide--1--3--1--slide--1-etc.
Practice shifting like this in various scales and especially on the 1st and 2nd strings . . . pretty soon the high parts will be a breeze!
good luck,
Brian
oudplayer - 7-19-2005 at 03:53 AM
hey brain
i kind o fget what u sayu but is there any wa that some sone can post a movie of them doing it bc i think we can learn alot faster thx
thx sammy
Jameel - 7-19-2005 at 05:29 AM
Thanks Brian for the great excercises. They improved my shifting instantly! You are my official on-line teacher! I made a liitle video of my attempt
at the first excercise. The second one will take a little more practice! Give us more, Brian!
Brian Prunka - 7-19-2005 at 09:29 AM
Here's another exercise, this one moves your first finger through most of the available positions. Whenever you see a 1 followed by a 1 on a
different note, that's the shift.
Note that on the descending half, you shift on the second note of each group.
Brian Prunka - 7-19-2005 at 09:32 AM
I should mention that while 90% of the time the position puts each finger on a half-step, when there's an augment 2nd (e.g., Ab - B) that there's a
stretch.
maqamat with quarter-tones have slightly different fingerings, although the same general idea applies.
TruePharaoh21 - 7-19-2005 at 12:18 PM
Hey all,
I remember before I had met Afif, I was watching one the videos that Mike had put up on his site, and Afif was just flying down the high C. I was
utterly amazed at the skill, and was surprised that anyone could move down with that much precision (at that time, I hadn't really been too exposed
with all of the various oud players I'm aware of now).
I remember coming up with a simple tune that I just had to carry when going down the high C (in maqam Nahawand), and it worked fairly well for me.
Just as Brian mentioned before, it necessitates that your index finger be the one that slides back, and the rest follow. It's a very simple set of
notes, but it helped:
G-G-Ab-G ..... F-F-G-F ..... Eb-Eb-F-Eb-D-C.
1-1-2-1 ........ 1-1-3-1 ..... 1-1-3-1-1-0
Again, it's very simple, but it took me some time to get, and it's helped in almost all of the rest of these kinds of "falls," if you will.
One of the problems I had was going from G to F, as I was not too accustomed to the position of that note at the time. I considered this to be the
most challenging part of the exercise, and I think Brian would agree, considering you're sliding back two-half notes.
Anyway, just thought I'd share.
TP21
Hi
Najib - 6-2-2006 at 03:31 AM
Thanks for the excellent tips on this thread.
With regards to the Longa Ferahfeza, I have heard it played extremely quickly by Charbel Rouhana on his "Sourat-Trait d'Union" Cd.
I have specifically asked him how does he play bars 5 and 6 of the Teslim:
G G F F E E D D C C B A G
Although he always says the shift is with the first, in this case he does the shift with the fourth, and with regards to the 2 Cs he does one on open
C and one with the fourth on the G
G(4)-G(4)-F(4)-F(4)-E-E-D-D-C(0)-C(4)-B-A-G
Brian Prunka - 6-12-2006 at 09:44 AM
Hi Najib,
this is how I finger it as well. If you read my original post, I mention the disction between which finger is shifting and which
finger is played. even if both notes in a shift are on the fourth finger, the shift should still be from the first finger. It
helps to understand this if you always keep your first finger down when you play the other fingers (which is a good habit for speed anyway).
The open c/ fingered c trick is a good one that the Shaheens taught me--it makes the risha movement easier.
best,
Brian
oudman - 6-12-2006 at 11:32 AM
I think it would be interesting as well to see different players fingering for the maqamat that have quarter tones, like Bayati on D, Saba on D, Rast
on C (on the C string)