ktb711 - 8-2-2005 at 01:59 AM
Dear Friends,
I recently bought an oud from Sadettin Sandi (Cankaya Muzik Evi) and began to notice--what I would consider--major fret buzz on the second set of
stings from the bottom: one of the unwound ones. I have talked to a couple of oud players here in Istanbul, and they tell me that fret buzz is quite
normal with ouds. However, I find the sound of the string a little beyond normal as it rather makes a snappy like buzz. In your opinion, is this
normal and expected? Also, is there any possible way that I can have this problem fixed.
Any information you could give will be greatly appreciated.
ktb
oudmaker - 8-2-2005 at 03:33 AM
There is no such a thing called fret buzz on a decent oud under a decent oud player's hand
ktb711 - 8-2-2005 at 05:48 AM
Dincer Bey, thank you so very much for taking the time to post a reply, though it does not really address my concerns. I am not a decent oud
player--just a new aficionado with a great desire to learn how to play. I do, however, have enough experience with strings to at least wonder whether
or not there might be a problem. Since you are an experienced luthier and obviously capable of answering such a question), what would you say about
the snappy sort of fret buzz? Thanks
Jonathan - 8-2-2005 at 06:05 AM
I had a similar problem with an oud I purchased by mail, new, a year ago. Not a Sadettin Sandi oud. It turned out that there was a high spot on the
fingerboard, which I sanded down, and the problem went away.
ktb711 - 8-2-2005 at 06:35 AM
Thanks for the information, Jonathan. That helps, because apart from that little buzz, the instruments sounds and feels great: very nice, warm tone
with very smooth action. I'll look into it. (You responded to one of my posts with advice when I was trying to decide which type of oud to buy, but I
never got around to posting a little gratitude. So thanks for your attention to "rookie" questions. Such things make this site so worthwhile.)
Jonathan - 8-2-2005 at 09:05 AM
No problem but, really, I am a rookie, too.
Fretboard bump or action too low
freya - 8-2-2005 at 09:45 AM
Hi,
As mentioned above, it might be a small ripple in the fretboard or the action might need to be raised a bit. It's easier to raise the action a bit to
see if that corrects the problem. Raising the action is quite easy, just loosen the affected string(s) and pull them up some ( a mm. or less) at the
bridge so that the string loops are further away from the soundboard. Hold them is the raised position while you retighted the strings. Alternatively,
take a popsicle stick (or similar) slightly higher that the current bottom of the string loops and insert it under the loops with the strings loosened
to raise the loop bottoms by a small amount. Tighten the strings and pop out the popsicle stick.
If it is a fretboard ripple, it's not hard to level the fretboard, but may be best left to a luthier if you're not used to working on instruments. To
check, eyeball the fretboard under a strong incident light to see if you can see the ripple - if there is any gloss to the fretboard, it should be
visible when you look down the fretboard.
My method for fretboard leveling is to take an 8 - 12 in. long piece of milled fir stock (i.e. very flat) and wrap first 220- 320 grit sand paper
around it and lightly sand the entire length of the fretboard in light, even, full strokes. Then repeat with 400, 600, and maybe 800 grit. Finally, I
go over it with 0000 steel wool and lightly oil with commercial fretboard oil. Oiling might best be avoided if your fretboard is flush with the
soundboard surface as some oil will bleed onto the sound board, discoloring it. Check the reflection off the fretboard throughout the process and
switch off the coarsest grit as soon as it appears flat. All of this best left to a luthier if your in doubt about doing it yourself.
Harry
oudmaker - 8-2-2005 at 10:14 AM
Gentlemen
Oud does not have a " fretboard" but has a " fingerboard" ktb711 writes that he talked couple oud players in Istanbul and get an answer that "oud
usualy has a this buzz sound" That is not true.
Ktb711 Tell me where the buzz sound happens when you move your finger along the string
ktb711 - 8-4-2005 at 04:58 AM
Dincer Bey, you are so right: fingerboard buzz, since there are no frets to begin with. (I suppose I am still working my way out of guitar jargon.)
But I did talk to couple of guys in Istanbul--both play Faruk Turunz's ouds and seem to know there way aroungd the instrument. They said that the
clicking/buzzing noise on the was normal and that I shouldn't worry too much. However, I found it difficult to believe that "fingerboard" buzz/clicks
was somehow in order and normal. I tend to agree with you: why should an oud have a normal buzzing sound?
To be more specific about the noise: the B/2nd string makes the noise throughout the fingerboard, while the rest do not. It does not happen in any
particular spot per se, but rather in all of them, but only on that string. Wierd? Seems so to me. Perhaps it comes from the way I am plucking?
Freya, I have tried lifting the the strings around the bridge. That seem to work, but only when in Turkish tuning. I was a little timid about pulling
the strings in fear of damaging the bridge or the soundboard or something. So, I'll try loosening them first and see what happens.
One note: Samir/Canada posted a video, and I could swear that his oud made the same noise, on the same string. If the noise on his oud is normal,
then, I suppose I should be too worried about mine.
Thank you all for your advice.
strings too close?
revaldo29 - 8-4-2005 at 11:16 AM
Ktb,
I'm no expert but I've seen this before on a friend's oud. Is the buzzing caused by the strings touching each other when you strike them? It could
be that you need to find a different set of strings or maybe alter the spacing between them. This advice might be retarded but if it is, oudmaker will
quickly correct me (I hope 
)
take care,
Adnan
SamirCanada - 8-4-2005 at 11:43 AM
Hey I know what buzz you are talking about.
I corrected the problem tho. It came from the nut. The strings where too close togheter and the action at the nut was almost 0 mm. Like you couldnt
see a gap at the strings where you should have about 1mm. I made a new nut for it and all the buzz problems where fixed. I remind you that the buzz
came from open fingered notes. Most fingered positions didnt have a buzz because the strings werent vibrating at the nut. For the D3 course there was
buzzing at some fingered positions because the nut was cuz so close that it made the strings too close togheter all the way down the brige and when
fingering the course the strings would touch. I have noticed in my experience that most of the problems I get from tuning and vibrations come from a
poorly made nut. If that's not the case with your oud. Then I cant tell you what or how to fix it. Best bet is to take it to the maker. If you live in
Turkey that would be easy.
cheers
Samir
oudmaker - 8-4-2005 at 04:27 PM
ktb,
1-Revaldo (Adnan) is rigth. Strings may be too close to each other.Normaly at the nut strings should be 1.5 mm. at the bridge 2.5 mm apart. Check them
out.
2- Samirs suggestion is correct. But you said you have the buzz all along the string. So it is not applicable in your case. However one correction to
his suggestion that the string heigth at the nut should not be more than 0.3mm. When you have a problem as Samir's description all you need is put a
nylon fishing line of #30 across the nut.
3- I had a bad experience similar what you have when I had two bad plain strings once. I dont want to say what make was them but they were belong
well known manufacturer. But as I said I had it ONCE!!
I hope I shed a light on the problem.
Regards to all
ktb711 - 8-5-2005 at 02:08 AM
Thanks Adnan, Samir, and Dincer.
Most of the things you say have crossed my mind, especially the idea that the strings might be a little to close together. Adnan, I did try to watch
them to see if they touched while vibrating, but couldn't really tell. If I avoid plucking aggressively, it doesn't make the sound. But, of course, it
is frustrating to pluck some strings gingerly and the rest normally.
Could it be the case that the strings are too close together at the bridge (rather than at the nut)? While plucking in the open position it doesn't
happen, but once I press the strings to the fingerboard and give a decent strike, there's just a little too much snap, crackle, pop.
I'll take the oud to Saddetin Sandi in Ankara at some point.
Thanks for all you advice, I learned a lot.
ktb
Dr. Oud - 8-8-2005 at 10:05 AM
In addition to all the physical defects that can contribute to buzzing strings, there is also the plectrum technique to consider. If you are attacking
the string at an angle into the face, it will add some amplitude to the string's vibration profile and may cause a low action string to buzz. The oud
should be plucked as near to parallel to the face as possible, and not too hard so as to cause buzzing from simple hard plucking.
SamirCanada - 8-8-2005 at 07:42 PM
Thats verry true Doc.
concidering your plucking is fine.. then you should look for the physical defects of the oud.. but I think the human is wrong more often times then
the oud itself!
ktb711 - 8-10-2005 at 02:06 AM
Doc and SamirCanada-- Perhaps your suggestions explain why this problem may or may not happen 100 percent of the time. Human error? I have certainly
given it a lot of thought. In fact, The buzz/snap seems like a hit-or-miss situation, really. However, more often than not, I get that snap. I was
told that some (if not many) out players like this sound, as it adds a little "tarab." Well, if it is humar error, my "tarab" is more like a kassab!
Just that one string... I'll be more careful with the plucking angle--maybe that's it.
I should add that the more I play the Sadetting Sandi, the more I like it. It has an incredibly sweet sound and is quite easy to play. I spoke with
him on the phone, and he told me that if there is a problem, it would not take more than half and hour to fix it. So, if the problem is (for the time
being) a result of my playing, or an issue of a simple adjustment, I am much more comfortable with the purchase I made. Paddock, Mahagony bowl; Ebony
fingerboard and pegs, spruce top; not too ornate--just a modest, though beautiful oud, with significant attention to detail.
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions,
ktb