Mike's Oud Forums

wavy Sound board

sydney - 11-12-2005 at 04:00 AM

The sound board of my Syrian oud has become wavy. I'd like to know what to do to fix it. I guess I know why it became as such but more explainations and advices in order to avoid this to happen again would be highly appreciated.

here is a photo of it.

Dr. Oud - 11-12-2005 at 07:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sydney
The sound board of my Syrian oud has become wavy. I'd like to know what to do to fix it. I guess I know why it became as such but more explainations and advices in order to avoid this to happen again would be highly appreciated.

here is a photo of it.

The distortion of the face is a natural result of the string tension. This is actually a good sign as it means the soundboard is thin enough to produce good volume. If the braces are positioned correctly, the tone will be good as well. THe string tension twists the soundboard at the bridge, which causes the face to depress just ahead of the bridge. As the tension passes over the first brace ahead of the bridge, the distorsion is reversed like a see saw and the face will rise up just under the Shamis (large rose). This is not a problem unless the face gets too near the strings and interferes with your mizrab stroke or so close that the strings rattle on the face.

The fix is to remove the edging around the sides of the face from the bridge area to the top of the Shamis, loosen the braces at the sides, and trim down the top edge of the body to put a gradual concave curve in the soundboard with the deepest point at the brace forward of the bridge. It doesn't take much, 4-6mm (1/8 - 3/15 inch) is plenty. This will relieve the face by putting the braces forward of the bridge below the plane of the bridge, so that the face will not twist and raise up at the Shamis under the string tension. This feature is used on every Turkish oud built today and was used in the past by the Nahat family of oudmakers. Some Arabic makers avoid this distorsion by making their soundboards thicker, but then the volume and tone is compromised. The better Arabic ouds have shallow braces to compensate for the thicker face. Yours apparently has a thin face with inadequate braces and no relief to avoid the distortion.

Magic

sydney - 11-12-2005 at 07:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Oud

The fix is to remove the edging around the sides of the face from the bridge area to the top of the Shamis, loosen the braces at the sides, and trim down the top edge of the body to put a gradual concave curve in the soundboard with the deepest point at the brace forward of the bridge. It doesn't take much, 4-6mm (1/8 - 3/15 inch) is plenty. This will relieve the face by putting the braces forward of the bridge below the plane of the bridge, so that the face will not twist and raise up at the Shamis under the string tension. This feature is used on every Turkish oud built today and was used in the past by the Nahat family of oudmakers. Some Arabic makers avoid this distorsion by making their soundboards thicker, but then the volume and tone is compromised. The better Arabic ouds have shallow braces to compensate for the thicker face. Yours apparently has a thin face with inadequate braces and no relief to avoid the distortion.



Dr. Oud

To me this magic... as if you had my oud in your hand while posting this. :bowdown:

Yes indeed it is a very thin face.

Thank you so much for your explaination. Perfect.

Now... I am sure you know I am ignorant when it comes to knowing how to fix it. I do not know what to do to remove the edging around the face. what tools to use. Will I be able to put it back again myself? "i am worried to death"

There are also some steps that I can not understad how to follow or do. Is it possible for you to draw a scetch with what tools to use etc.. please.

Thank you in advance Dr. Oud

Dr. Oud - 11-13-2005 at 07:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sydney...There are also some steps that I can not understad how to follow or do. Is it possible for you to draw a scetch with what tools to use etc.. please. ...

I'm sorry but the entire operation has too many steps to post here. You could get my book for an explanation and view the project posts and Jameel's project site to get an idea of how to do it. If you have no experience working with wood, there is a risk of making it worse. You could take your oud and the book to an instrument repair shop and the technician should be able to fix it for you. If you tell me your location I might know someone in your area who could help you.

Thought that will be the case !!!

sydney - 11-13-2005 at 08:14 AM

Hello Dr. Oud,

I thought that will be the case, I have no experience with wood working so I guess I should not take that risk.

It is for sure a great value to have your book but only if I have the knowledge and experience to use it.

The best way for me now is to take that oud with me next time I am going to Egypt.

I am so thankfull for you have tried your best to help me on this.

Thank you so much Dr. Oud

Wavy face…

Hank Levin - 11-17-2005 at 04:00 PM

You bet there are a lot of steps. I would only consider separating the face from the edge of the shell (the topmost ribs) if (1) there is insufficient clearance between the strings and the face OVER THE MIZRABPLEK (scratchplate) to pick comfortably with good technique, or (2) the face has arched up so much at the bottom of the large rosette that the strings hit it. (If there is a buzz, make sure THAT's where it is!)

Yes, well designed ouds--and lutes-- have a dip built into the face with the deepest part of the dip just over the scratchplate on the oud (and the plucking area on the lute). That said, many, if not most, fine old ouds have very wavy faces. If it doesn't interfere with good technique, don't mess with it.

See if you can get a recording-class artist to try it out. He or she will know in just a moment. Folk musicians who "bang" on them need lots of room. It's all a matter of degree--and there are indeed individual preferences.--Hank

sydney - 11-18-2005 at 08:34 AM

Hello Hank,

It is playable ... no buzzing at all.

But don't you think it has to be fixed?

Wavy face…

Hank Levin - 11-18-2005 at 09:01 AM

Dear Emad--

>>It is playable ... no buzzing at all.
>>But don't you think it has to be fixed?

A very good policy that I highly recommend regarding repairs:

"If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

I would only mess with an instrument like this if I ascertained that a glue joint under tension (like the bridge to the face, or the lower part of the face to the body) was lifting and in immediate danger of ripping up---which you have not complained of. I daresay that as you become more familiar with fine old ouds, you will become more tolerant of such abberations. I have many times shown such things to my teacher Necati Çelik and asked his advice. If it plays easily and sounds good, he will always say, "It is perfect. Don't touch it."

So enjoy your very nice oud! Watch for cracks or separations developing, and DO purchase a decent room humidifier if you don't already have one. They cost less than $100 US, which is less than one well-executed crack repair.

Fondly,
Hank Levin

sydney - 11-18-2005 at 09:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hank Levin
Dear Emad--

>>It is playable ... no buzzing at all.
>>But don't you think it has to be fixed?

A very good policy that I highly recommend regarding repairs:

"If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

Fondly,
Hank Levin


Hank,

I am so happy with your advice,

Indeed it is not broken. The oud is playable and it has been with a wavy sound board as such for over four years. In fact this is the oud I use for professional recording "listen to this sample"

I only thought it needs fixing because I never thought this is normal.

But since you do not recommend doing anything to it ... so be it.

Thank you so much for the advice.

Hank Levin - 11-18-2005 at 10:37 AM

Dear Emad,

What a charming piece of music! And your oud sounds splendid! Indeed, I can hear Necati saying, "Don't touch it."

Thank you for sharing this remarkable tidbit with us. I am honored.

Best,
Hank Levin

Much appreciated

sydney - 11-18-2005 at 06:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hank Levin
Dear Emad,

What a charming piece of music! And your oud sounds splendid! Indeed, I can hear Necati saying, "Don't touch it."

Thank you for sharing this remarkable tidbit with us. I am honored.

Best,
Hank Levin


Thank you Hank,

Your kind comment is much appreciated.
Thank you for you advices and guidance.