Mike's Oud Forums

One String tuned an Octave Higher.

sydney - 12-9-2005 at 08:09 AM

Hello fine people,

I am wondering if anybody ever tried to use strings as such ... from high to low


c string _______________ tuned normal.
c string _______________ tuned normal.

g string _______________ tuned 1 octave higher - a high f can be used
g string _______________ tuned normal.

d string _______________ tuned 1 octave higher - c string can be used.
d string _______________ tuned normal.

A string _______________ tuned 1 octave higher - g string can be used.
A string _______________ tuned normal.

F string _______________ tuned 1 octave higher - D string can be used.
F string _______________ tuned normal.

C string _______________ tuned 1 octave higher - A string can be used.
C string _______________ tuned normal.


I am not sure if you guys remember Dr. Hussin Saber. I know he tried this or something similar but It did sound lovely.

What you guys think?

al-Halabi - 12-9-2005 at 09:03 AM

Udi Hrant occasionally played the oud with some courses tuned in octaves, and was able to produce a rich sound.

interesting

sydney - 12-9-2005 at 09:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by al-Halabi
Udi Hrant occasionally played the oud with some courses tuned in octaves, and was able to produce a rich sound.


Hello al-Halabi,

Thanks for sharing this intersting info.

Do you think there is any sound files of that so we can have a listen?


Thanks

al-Halabi - 12-9-2005 at 09:34 AM

Hi Emad,

Traditional Crossroads issued three CD albums of Hrant's performances, but I don't remember if any of the pieces on them are played on an oud with pairings in octaves. You might want to check them out. I have a Hrant taksim played on an oud with such a tuning, but it's on cassette and I wouldn't know how digitize it and post it. I copied it from an old LP, and I don't believe it's on the CD albums. The piece is beautiful in its resonance.

Jonathan - 12-9-2005 at 09:41 AM

What is the name of the track, al-Halabi, and from which LP?
I think the easiest example to get ahold of would be on the cd released by Traditional Crossroads called The Early Recordings. There are two volumes--stick with the first, because it is far better. There is a track on there called Hicaz Taksim Ciftekiris that is a great example of this. Here, though, I believe he is tuning one string in the pair down, rather than up. An incredible sound. Did anybody do this before Hrant?

al-Halabi - 12-9-2005 at 10:38 AM

Jonathan,

The Hrant piece I have is a Huseyni taksim. I copied it, along with another Hrant taksim in Hicaz, more than twenty years ago. Unfortunately I didn't note the name of the LP at the time, and I don't know at what stage of Hrant's career the pieces were recorded and where. These two taksims, especially the Huseyni, are remarkably bright and resonant, with a rich sound that evokes the timbre of long-necked lutes. I just listened to the Hicaz taksim that you mentioned (on track 16 of volume one). It may not be as good an example of the possibilities of tuning in octaves (because of the poor quality of the recording and the somewhat dull effect of the very low tuning).

Whenever I listen to these Hrant pieces I am tempted to try out this tuning in octaves, but then I think that it will take quite a bit of experimentation with gauges, the order of the strings in each octave pair, etc. to get it to sound right, and that the result may not be satisfactory in the end. I don't know of anyone other than Hrant who has recorded with an oud tuned this way. Tuning in octaves is common, though, in the long-necked lutes in the Middle East (saz, tanbur, buzuq, etc.), which use metal strings.

Jonathan - 12-9-2005 at 06:02 PM

If it is the track I am thinking of, it was on an lp called The Genius of Oudi Hrant. I agree, the sound is better on that one, but it has not been re-issued, sadly.

al-Halabi - 12-9-2005 at 06:32 PM

Do you happen to know what pieces are on this Hrant album, the label and the date of issue?

Digitizing

sydney - 12-10-2005 at 12:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by al-Halabi
Hi Emad,

Traditional Crossroads issued three CD albums of Hrant's performances, but I don't remember if any of the pieces on them are played on an oud with pairings in octaves. You might want to check them out. I have a Hrant taksim played on an oud with such a tuning, but it's on cassette and I wouldn't know how digitize it and post it. I copied it from an old LP, and I don't believe it's on the CD albums. The piece is beautiful in its resonance.



Hello al-Halabi,

It is a shame that it is on a tape. I guess digitizing can be made if you do this ...

- Take a cable from the "line out" or "headphone" from the tape player.
- Connect it to the "line in" in the PC sound card.
- Swich on the "line in" channel from the control panel.
- You can use "Audacity" software or any available recording software to record your tape.
- Save your tracks as wave format for a CD use or mp3 format to post it for us.

I am sure you could do it but you do not have time for it ... it is understandable. please do it ...:D

Thank you heaps

al-Halabi - 12-10-2005 at 06:40 AM

Emad,

Thanks for the information. I will get it done, although it will have to be after an overseas trip I have to make soon.

No worries

sydney - 12-10-2005 at 08:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by al-Halabi
Emad,

Thanks for the information. I will get it done, although it will have to be after an overseas trip I have to make soon.


al-Halabi,

No worries mate,

This can wait. I deeply wish you a safe journey.

All the best.

al-Halabi - 12-10-2005 at 10:17 AM

Thanks, Emad. Salamtak.

Jonathan - 12-10-2005 at 11:51 AM

al-Halabi, Hrant had two LPs with different names that were exactly the same. One was called The Genius of Oudi Hrant (I don't recall the label, but if you need it, I will dig up the LP).
The same LP was also released as Turkish Delights on Prestige 1089. I have tried, but been unable to determine when it was released. I am also uncertain as to which was released first. It was recorded on one of his American trips, so I guess I can narrow it down a bit, but if you happen to know more, please let me know.
The tracks are:
Side One:
1. Doktor. 2. Hijazkar Longa. 3. Hrant Taksim No. 1. 4. Ankara Koshmasi. 5.. Rumeli Karshilama. 6. Anatoliana
Side Two:
1. Anadolu Oyunu. 2. Sultan Yegah. 3. Hrant Taksim No. 2. 4. Aman Avci. 5. Cift Telli.
The thing I dislike is that it really tries to appeal to a western audience, which I can't stand. I think the lp he put out called Houdi Hrant--Master of the Oriental Lute is better, but there, too, about half the tracks sound like they are trying to attract the Perry Como crowd. Mike posted a couple of tracks from that album that I sent him a couple of months ago.
Sydney, I am not trying to derail your track, but if anybody happens to have a copy of Hrant's autobiography, please let me know.
Thanks.

al-Halabi - 12-10-2005 at 03:31 PM

Jonathan,

Thanks for the information on Hrant's LPs. What I have, then, may be Taksim no. 1 and Taksim no. 2. No need to trouble yourself looking up the label - it's not important.

A propos your comments about the "westernized' arrangements of some of Hrant's recordings, I wanted to mention a couple of things that affected Hrant's career and legacy. In his visits to the U.S. he was apparently "managed" by people who were more eager to sell his recordings to a large audience than to display his command of the traditional repertoire, which was viewed perhaps as less accessible. Also, many of the recordings we have of him are unfortunately of poor quality and don't do justice to his virtuosity. And not least important, he has not been accorded recognition in Turkey as a top oud player. Those considered in the top class of oud players from Hrant's period include people like Yorgo Bacanos, Udi Nevres Bey, and Serif Muhittin Targan, followed of course by Cinucen Tanrikorur. Hrant is seldom mentioned as a model.