Mike's Oud Forums

Oudmakers Page

Mike - 12-14-2005 at 08:32 AM

Hey Greg & David,

I'd be more than happy to give input to an oudmakers page. David, I think it's best to put the page on your site. Let me know how I can help.

Best,
Mike

David Parfitt - 12-14-2005 at 08:56 AM

Hi guys

I guess we need to start by compiling a list of oud makers, their locations and websites where applicable. These are the ones I have so far, in alphabetical order according to surname:

Dincer Dalkilic (USA/Turkey) www.oudmaker.com
Haluk Eraydin (Turkey) www.eraydinsazevi.com.tr
Yaroub Mohammed Fadel (Tunisia) www.iraqi-oud.com/index/yaroub/info.htm
Nazih Ghadban (Lebanon) www.oudnazihghadban.com
Viken Najarian (USA) www.oud.net
Dimitris Rapakousios (Greece) www.dimitrisouds.com
Cengiz Sarikus (Turkey) www.veyselmuzik.com
Tasos Theodorakis (Greece) www.theodorakis.name/uk/frameset.html
Faruk Turunz (Turkey) www.oudmaster.com

Perhaps the forum members can suggest other names, as well as what kind of information should be provided for each maker - e.g. type of oud (Arabic, Turkish, Bashir-style), price range, etc. I'm not sure how much detail needs to be included here.

Look forward to receiving everyone's input on this.

All the best

David

sydney - 12-14-2005 at 09:00 AM

Mourice Shehata (Egypt - Cairo) http://www.mauriceouds.com/


:D

al-Halabi - 12-14-2005 at 09:51 AM

David,

It's good of you to provide this service. In deciding how much information to include for each oud maker it seems to me wise to avoid the kind of information that would tend to get outdated relatively quickly, hence placing a burden on you to keep updating details or alternatively making the page appear less than reliable to viewers. Instrument prices would be an example of information that would be better not to include. Let those interested in particular makers based on basic descriptive indicators on your page pursue things directly with the luthiers, check out customer satisfaction with different ouds on forums like this one, etc. People are going to do this kind of homework and negotiation with luthiers anyway, so a brief capsule of descriptive (and, of course, unopinionated) data on the instruments offered by each maker accompanied by a link to the web site, or other contact information for those with no web site, would be a very useful (and low-maintenance) guide.

todda - 12-14-2005 at 10:44 AM

Hi Mike -

Thought I might add to the string with a web content/interface topic.

Before I became interested in learning the oud, I played/studied mandolin and used http://www.mandolincafe.com as a resource for information ( much like I use your site now ). I'm not saying to mimic or copy the site - that discussion was already played out - I just wanted to present a sample of another web site and thier solution to the same situation.

The mandolincafe site is also a privately funded site, but has opted to have banner links ( that are paid for by the advertisers ) of related suppliers, makers, ect... I know that this can raise the issue of selectivity ( some oud makers can not afford banner advertising or simply do not have a web site ), but I think most viewers are web savy enought to understand this relation.
It does offer you some funding to support the site and possibly add features/epansions that would require additional funding.
If you select the "eye candy" page on the mandolincafe, it offers a full page of small hyperlink images of instruments. This is a great way to get quick stylistic views and a general overview of makers.

The mandolincafe also offers "giveaway" contests as traffic builders ( cross promotional marketing can help expose services which might go unknown other wise or bring funding/donations for an event ).

Your site is an educational resource and the addition of makers, retailers ( I bought my Shehata thru the Nileshop - very pleased with it... cedar & walnut ) and related materials ( strings, oud making tools, woods, pegs,ect.. ) is greatly appreciated. I think this new feature can also aid in how people access the information. I spent a few days researching the forums thru the "search" function on who to purchase thru, what makers had good and bad feedback, ect... It's up to the person to do the research, but a seemless hyperlink page can make the research a bit more effective and give details that might not be related in general topics.

I'm a graphic designer, illustrator dealing with branding, marketing & merchandising for large and small businesses, so my views will be tainted toward the commercial ideals.

I also wanted to add a name to oud makers - in my reseach in your forums page, I found a referance to Saad Al-tayyar. He makes oud that have fluted bowls and are quite stunning. I have never heard or played one, but the photos posted in your forms showed stunning craftsmanship. Here is a good example of a craftsman that does not have a web site, but should be listed:

Sadd Al-Tayyar
655 rue Jacques-Cartier
Bouchervill, QC J4b5n5
Canada

I emailed Mr Al-Tayyar and he was quite nice to talk with. When I can save and raise the funds I plan on owning one just to experinace what the thicker flutted rib format sounds like.

Mike, I aquired his name and email thru the forms. I did not ask his permission but figured if I was able to find it others could also. I have saved pics if you need them for the data base. I do not know Mr. Al-Tayyar or receive funding for providing this info, I just thought his instruments were quite nice astheticaly.

Ok now a shamless plug for me http://www.arbuckledesign.com

Dr. Oud - 12-14-2005 at 12:04 PM

So is this page for only commercial businesses? How about Jameel? is he not a maker? -and me too!

Jonathan - 12-14-2005 at 12:10 PM

My recommendation would be to include only the contact information, and any website they might have. Nothing else. No commentary, no prices. I just think that would make it a lot easier for you.

Peter Kyvelos
c/o Unique Strings
165 Belmont
Belmont, MA 02478
telephone: 617-489-1254

David Parfitt - 12-14-2005 at 12:23 PM

Hi Richard

It would be great to have you and Jameel on the list if you are happy to appear there. Sorry for not including you guys before - I just pulled the list of makers straight from my "Links" page, and I realise now that you and Jameel are listed under a different section in connection with your oud construction book.

If oud makers are to be listed in alphabetical order, then I think Jameel's surname might just make him top of the list! (Unless, of course, we discover an unknown oud maker called Mr Aardvark :D)

All the best

David

Sidi - 12-14-2005 at 01:22 PM

Yeah Mr Aardvark...I remember him. He don't look much like a luthier though:





P.S...Sorry Mike

Jonathan - 12-14-2005 at 01:35 PM

Cankaya Muzik (Sadettin Sandi). Turkey
http://www.cankayamuzikevi.com

todda - 12-14-2005 at 01:37 PM

Just checking on one of the links listed:

Yaroub Mohammed Fadel (Tunisia) http://www.iraqi-oud.com/index/yaroub/info.htm

Has always taken me to a search page with related links, sponsored links & popular catagoires, not a page relating any info on Mr. Fadel.

Is this what others get or do you need to apply a search in that page.
I have oud from him ( thru Ronney ) and have always wanted to see his page.

Todd

SamirCanada - 12-14-2005 at 01:38 PM

The Idea is to get as many makers as we can in a alphabetical order yes. But if there isnt enough info on that page (un biased of course) then we dont solve our problem of new people asking a simple question like " hey guys Iam new here, Iam looking for a new oud what should I get??" and stating a race amongst the members of who can get there first and plug his favorite maker.

Another Sugestion that I might add is this one. I could be usufull to change the name of this section of the forrum to just : " Sell oud's "
take the buy ouds out of it.
That way it is reserved exclusively for people that have ouds to sell. Anyone that wants a second hand oud browses the adds and buys what is there.
(No more:" hey guys Iam new here, Iam looking for a new oud what should I get??") Which Iam not saying shouldnt be allowed at all! I still concider myself new to the oud and I probably will concider myself new to it for another 15 years. But it would be better that if someone comes with such a question then they should be redirected to that maker's page providing there's enough information on that page to get them comparing on there own. Maybe this will help put a break on the promotion efforts. Iam just trying to suggest something let me know what you think.

And DR.oud. you did the right thing by mentioning yourself and Jameel to be on that list. Any other maker who would want to be included in it could ask to have his name on it and in the end I should be as exhaustive as possible.

Jonathan - 12-14-2005 at 01:41 PM

Personally, I would rather prefer keeping it buy and sell. Take a look back, and you will see that there are submissions to purchase ouds. There is no need to limit it. Just because somebody has not taken the time to list an oud, does not mean that it would not be for sale if somebody said that they were interested in buying one by a certain maker.
Last I checked, Andy was looking for a Merjanian. I'm still looking for a Kerestecyan .

Jonathan - 12-14-2005 at 01:45 PM

I am not making endorsements or anything, these are just some oud makers that I know of.
Samir Azar
Syria
http://www.samir-oud.8m.com/

Jonathan - 12-14-2005 at 01:54 PM

Karolos Tsakirian. Mostly bouzoukis, but he makes ouds, too.
Greece
http://www.bouzouki.com.gr

Ibrahim Sukar
Syria
http://www.oudsukar.com

Sidi - 12-14-2005 at 02:22 PM

Jonathan, Samir Azar's link doesn't work here...pls check it.

Jonathan - 12-14-2005 at 02:30 PM

It is working for me. Has a lot of banner ads, so at first you might not realize that it is his site, but it is.

al-Halabi - 12-14-2005 at 02:32 PM

Ejder Gulec
Izmir, Turkey
http://www.ejdermusic.com

Najib Shaheen
New York
http://www.oudman.com

Jonathan - 12-14-2005 at 02:40 PM

Matthias Wagner
Germany
http://www.lutes-strings.de/e-aoud.php/

Greg - 12-14-2005 at 03:21 PM

Wow! A lot can happen overnight. Thanks for picking this up and runing with it David. Thanks, as always, to Mike for giving his support to this idea and for the myriad other things he does to support us.

I am really very thankful that David has taken this on. I didn't want to increase Mike's already busy life and I figured it would be down to me to do the leg work on this.

I haven't researched it, but I think there would be several free CGI or MySQL Databases that would make the layout, setup and update process easier. That would be a whole lot better than having to edit html every time an update was needed. There are also spider type applications that could search Mike's forums and build each of the the link pages. You just point the app at the main URL, give it some search words and it will find the links and build the page.

David, if I can be of help with any of this, please let me know. I go on vacation in a week and time is a bit tight between now and then. But I will be happy to help, once I get hooked up to broadband at my holiday location.

Regards,

Greg

revaldo29 - 12-14-2005 at 03:30 PM

Guys, I don't mean to be a pessimist and I think the webpage is a great idea, I just know that if I'm going to spend hundreds of dollars on a new oud, I'm going to take more than the maker's word on the quality and prices. I don't think there is anything wrong with making a post inquiring about oud makers and the quality of their instruments and such. In fact, I believe this is exactly what the forums should be used for! I believe in a free market fellas. If you're a oud maker and feel like your reputation has been tarnished or your work is being under represented, then its your obligation and not that of anyone else do defend that reputation. I was very impressed with the way Mr. Ghadban frequented the forums and defend his work when it came under brutal questioning a few months back. I honestly feel that with such high levels of scrutiny as to what members can and can't say about luthiers and their work will delegitmize this website. Thats my opinion. I find this whole issue to be a little ridiculous, almost childish.

Jonathan - 12-14-2005 at 05:40 PM

I think, though, that this list could be a very valuable resource for people looking for an instrument. And, in the end, why go through a third party if you can buy directly from the luthier?

I don't think anybody is saying that we should not ask opinions on the quality of a certain luthier's instruments. I hope not. I hope that this site will continue to be an honest forum for discussions like this.

Passions are ignited when somebody says something with great authority, and yet has little to base that on. This guys ouds are the only ones anybody should buy. That guy's ouds are junk. We have all seen this happen time and again on the boards and, in truth, the person providing the comments often has very little to base that on. It might be his first oud, but he knows already that the guy that he bought his oud from makes the best ouds in the world.

I have no problem with somebody saying that I should not buy a certain luthier's oud because, when they had an oud made by him, the neck warped after a year. Or the mizraplek started to peel off. Or the pegs fitted poorly. Fine. Good reasons. I would be grateful for that input. Or the sound is muddy, or has a low volume. Thanks for the input. Even if you tell me it just didn't sound good to you. OK, thanks for your opinion.

Just don't tell me that some guy makes the only good oud to be found when, in truth, you have no idea about what is out there.

Revaldo, you used the word childish, and I could not agree more. But, it is not the issue that is childish. We are dealing with peoples reputations, here. These ouds can be their lifes work. Rather, it is thoughtless comments that are sometimes made on this board that are childish.

The list is a good idea. Not to squelch comments on this board. But, rather to help somebody looking for an oud to see what is out there. And, if he is fortunate to live near the luthier, to stop in and see the luthier and his ouds. Rather than deter conversation about an ouds merits, perhaps it will encourage comments. Thoughtful comments.

Heck, if it just lets some newbie know that there are places other than Lark in the Morning to buy an oud, then it is worth it.

revaldo29 - 12-14-2005 at 06:24 PM

Hey Jonathan,

I know what your saying my friend but anyone who posts questions in a public forum knows that he will receive resonable responses and will also receive ludacris responses. This is the nature of such forms of communication. Hell, we even had a guy send a oud from malaysia that was defective! But you know what, the good people that visit these forums pitched in and helped him purchase a new oud. The point I'm trying to make is that to expect professionalism at all times from a public forum is not reasonable. But from what I've seen and learned from my last two years here, the good more than out weighs the bad. Sure this website will be helpful but a luthiers website can only tell you so much. Even the luthier himself, you can only take his word to a certain point.

I hope the good folks working on this website don't take my comments to be in any way unsupportive of what they're doing. Good luck to you all and I will definately frequent the website when its up.

Ronny Andersson - 12-14-2005 at 09:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by todda
Just checking on one of the links listed:

Yaroub Mohammed Fadel (Tunisia) http://www.iraqi-oud.com/index/yaroub/info.htm

Has always taken me to a search page with related links, sponsored links & popular catagoires, not a page relating any info on Mr. Fadel.

Is this what others get or do you need to apply a search in that page.
I have oud from him ( thru Ronney ) and have always wanted to see his page.

Todd



Todd, Yaroub's website can be found here Yaroub
His site needs to be updated with lot of new photos....