Mike's Oud Forums

"M. Fadel" Repair

Jameel - 2-12-2006 at 01:50 PM

Thought I would share this. This oud came to me in semi-playable but otherwise terrible condition. I'm not even sure it's a real Fadel. The workmanship is mediocre at best. It's also been repaired who knows how many times as evidenced by numerous patches. The triangle-shaped areas below the fingerboard are made of a hide-glue sawdust paste. Yuck! It would take too much writing to explain all that's wrong here. But the oud sounds decent, so I decided I'd give it a whirl.

Jameel - 2-12-2006 at 01:51 PM

Removing a goopy layer of unknown finish from the face. Nasty, messy job, since chemical stripper was required. I bet the sound gets a whole lot better....

Jameel - 2-12-2006 at 01:52 PM

A big split had developed below the bridge, so I patched it with a new strip of spruce.

Jameel - 2-12-2006 at 01:54 PM

The inlay in the pick guard didn't survive the stripping, and was inlaid very poorly, so I replaced it.

Jameel - 2-12-2006 at 01:56 PM

The full-length fingerboard had at one time been rosewood (I can't beleive the condition of this oud, it's only around 20 years old!), but was oddly replaced with spruce. It was pretty loose so I removed the entire thing and leveled the tops of the braces.

Jameel - 2-12-2006 at 02:00 PM

I had to remove extra material from the braces in order to level them, so instead of raising the braces, I just made the replacement piece of spruce extra thick to compensate. This isn't a critical sound-producing area of the face, so the extra thickness doesn't really concern me. Besides, this isn't exactly a collector's item. Here I've also cleaned the top of the neck block to be flush with the tops of the braces.

Jameel - 2-12-2006 at 02:03 PM

The end of the spruce patch was rabbeted in order to bring it flush with the rest of the soundhole inner surface.

Jameel - 2-12-2006 at 02:05 PM

Here you can see the rabbet as I glue the patch to the tops of the braces.

Jameel - 2-12-2006 at 02:06 PM

Here I'm gluing the patch in place. It will be planed flush after the glue cures. I wasn't so concerned with a perfect fit here at the edges, since this area will be covered by the new full-length on-top-of-the-face fingerboard.

Gorgeous detail.....

Jameel - 2-12-2006 at 02:10 PM

Ahhh......inspiring indeed is the site of such beautiful and nuanced artistry. ;)

SamirCanada - 2-12-2006 at 02:33 PM

Thanks for the pics Jameel
Even if its no keeper... its still nice to practice surgery on a oud you dont care for to keep your skills on the edge. Plus you never know what you'll be able to make it become.

SamirCanada - 2-12-2006 at 02:41 PM

Now that I see what kind of neck it has. The oud I have done restoration of had the same type of neck. It looks like the put a hole in both the neck block and the neck it self and put this round peice of wood through both. For some reason when I took the face off. The neck raised... maybe a cm or so making the action really high... I wonder what made it raise. If you notice it hapening let me know how I could fix it.
Thanks

Ronny Andersson - 2-13-2006 at 02:14 AM

Jameel, this oud is a very ugly fake.

Jameel - 2-13-2006 at 04:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ronny Andersson
Jameel, this oud is a very ugly fake.


Tell me about it. It's a tourist oud at best. But the soundboard is actually quite thin, and it sounds ok, so after it's spruced up it will make a good beginner's oud.

Ronny Andersson - 2-13-2006 at 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jameel
Quote:
Originally posted by Ronny Andersson
Jameel, this oud is a very ugly fake.


Tell me about it. It's a tourist oud at best. But the soundboard is actually quite thin, and it sounds ok, so after it's spruced up it will make a good beginner's oud.


I belive its origine is Lebanon but I've also heard Syria being mentioned. Anyway, I test played one and the quality is descent for a beginner trying the oud for fun.

SamirCanada - 2-13-2006 at 08:57 PM

Must be syria

Jameel - 2-17-2006 at 09:16 AM

Samir,

The dowel is a pretty common way to join the neck. It's not as good as a dovetail, since the gluing surface isn't as large.

Here's a shot of the almost finished oud. New pegs are all that's left. I'll post some sound clips later.

Jameel - 2-17-2006 at 09:20 AM

Mike - 2-17-2006 at 11:19 AM

wow...what a difference...incredible job Jameelo!

paulO - 2-17-2006 at 11:27 AM

Fabulous work man, everything you did looks great--I like the tailpice a lot, and the back turned out to be pretty nice looking too -- a real transformation, looking forward to the sound clip(s).

Cheers..PaulO

Andy - 2-17-2006 at 12:52 PM

FANTASTIC: applause: great job

SamirCanada - 2-17-2006 at 12:57 PM

Nice fingerboard I like it a lot. Those little wings on the side of it where the neck and body meet. They add a nice old school look with the bone inlay.
excellent job on the whole reconstruction.

Jameel - 2-19-2006 at 04:46 PM

Thanks everybody. Couple weekends and a virtually unplayable tourist oud is transformed into a decent instrument. Here's some more pics.

Greg - 2-19-2006 at 05:48 PM

Unbelievable! Jameel you are getting very quick at this stuff and the workmanship is, as always, first-class.

I wish you were in my neighbourhood mate, I have a couple of old deaduns that could live again with a little bit of your magic.

Regards,

Greg

Jameel - 2-20-2006 at 07:17 PM

Thanks Greg. I'd be glad to work on your ouds, if we weren't half a planet apart!

revaldo29 - 2-20-2006 at 07:54 PM

Hey Jameel,

I've been woundering, how are tuning pegs made? Do you make yours or just order them? It seems like such a pain to make them.

Jameel - 2-21-2006 at 05:21 AM

I order them. These are violin pegs.

Very good job Jameelo

sydney - 2-21-2006 at 05:30 AM

I can not add much to what Greg said. really first class work as always.

I also have a quick question regarding the spacing between the single strings at the nut. I am talking about the first high strings - the spacing between the singles.

How do you decide that space? Do you think there is a set distance between them?what is the effect in your opinion?

From what I see in the photo you provided, the spacing seemed like over 2 mm what is your say?

Thanks

Jameel - 2-21-2006 at 06:56 AM

You have a good eye Emad. The spacing is a little wider than normal. This nut was made for some thinner strings, and the Aquilas seem to sit in the grooves a bit differently. Personally I like the strings to be as close as possible. If there are too close though I suppose some buzzing could result. I usually make mine 1.5-2mm apart.

Thanks for your reply Jameelo

sydney - 2-21-2006 at 08:37 AM

This is a part of the oud that often gets forgotten about and I thought there is a kind of rule to follow when getting the nut grooved for the strings.

I agree with you Jameel. I like them close, even less than 1.5mm I noticed that the string rings like a bell or in Egyptian slang it sounds like "zaghrotah". I never had any buzzing before but maybe will happen if they become way too close.

I admire your good work Jameel. God bless your hands

Wondering how far did you go with playing ... treat us to something with your new oud please

Stay well

Brian Prunka - 2-21-2006 at 04:24 PM

That's funny, I noticed too that the strings seemed spaced a little wider than I'm used to . . . I almost commented on it earlier but I didn't have the time

Nice job as usual Jameel . . .

Jameel - 2-21-2006 at 07:57 PM

Thanks Brian. This oud (and my work on it) is nothing special, but your comment about the spacing is bugging me. I've been playing this oud the last couple days. This nut was made, as I said, for some thinner strings, but these aquilas are farther apart (particularly the g) for some reason. Go figure. It definitely has a noticeable feel, and I'm not crazy about it. Now I must fix it! Especially when playing fast, the finger doesn't necessarily "fret" the string properly everytime due to the width it must span. This is a good lesson in string spacing at the nut. I am particularly fastidious with regard to subtleties like this. It bugs me to no end if I get one of those high-pitched buzzes from the pegbox. You guys ever get that? Sometimes on string is just barely touching another or a peg or the pegbox and when certain notes (not even the string necessarily) are plucked it makes its annoying little sound. And I string my oud meticulously. Once found, a tiny (a I mean tiny) piece of folded paper under the offending spot usually does the trick. I'll post a sound clip after the strings settle in a few days, since they still sound pretty thin. Oh, one other thing. I recently sold my Sukar oud that had Aquilas on it for about 1 year. Within the last month or so (maybe due to the drier winter conditions??) the plains have taken on a real sweet bell-like sound, hard to describe, but something I've noticed in good-sounding arabic ouds. It got me thinking that the maybe the aquilas take on a better quality over time. They also felt quite a bit looser than when first strung. It's interesting because the plains got better, but the wounds seemed to get a bit duller. Anyone have any thoughts?

mavrothis - 2-21-2006 at 08:08 PM

Hey,

If you strip the jacket off a wire (best if it's a smooth/hard jacket) and use it as a tube around any wound string(s) that come into contact with the pegbox that usually eliminates that kind of buzzing. It also means less friction with other strings if any are close in proximity. Munir Beken showed me that trick, he has all his wound strings in the tubes of wire jackets. I think 12-16 guage wire jackets will work, though I forget what I used the last time.

I've tried putting all the wound strings in tubes, but found it didn't really do that much to "smooth" out tuning, so now I just leave one on the bass string since it is the one usually closest to the pegbox wall.

mav

SamirCanada - 2-21-2006 at 10:08 PM

Great Job Jameel exellent work.
Good idea Mav. I usualy used the paper trick like Jameel I'll try that if ever I get that problem again. As far as aquilas, I put some on my oud last month and I find that the plain G string particularly gives me problems. Its so thick and doesnt rest easy in the nut I find. Also I wonder if its the nylgut but for some reason the wound strings hold tuning like a charm and I can never get the plain G ones to stay tuned for verry long. It seems like they strech out or something because I get them tuned perfectly and after a few plucks latter they get out of tune. Anyone else noticed that?

LeeVaris - 2-22-2006 at 10:55 AM

Nylguts take a long time to settle in but once they do they stay in tune as well as any other nylon string. Jameel, I find that I can leave the nylgut trebles on through one change of bass strings so, if you can order the trebles separate, you can save a little by making them last for 2 string changes.

I second that

sydney - 2-22-2006 at 08:02 PM

Hello fine people

I second what you said about the treble strings, they last last longer . Also my aquila set seemed to take just a little longer to settle but when they do, they give the best sound. Base strings do last as long not sure why.

Can the base strings be orders separatly?

ofadel - 2-28-2006 at 01:00 AM

Hi Jameel, can you tell us who you order those tuning pegs from. I would like to order some and have them fitted. Thanks

omar

Jameel - 2-28-2006 at 04:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ofadel
Hi Jameel, can you tell us who you order those tuning pegs from. I would like to order some and have them fitted. Thanks

omar


http://www.quinnviolins.com/qv_pegs.shtml

SamirCanada - 3-16-2006 at 12:23 PM

Any chance we can hear it Jameelo?

Jameel - 3-16-2006 at 12:34 PM

Whoops, I shipped it back to the owner! Totally forgot to record it. Sorry...

SamirCanada - 3-16-2006 at 01:14 PM

OOPS! I tought it was yours.
Oh well... lucky is the owner of it.

Mazin - 12-18-2006 at 04:38 AM

Another splended work Mr Jameel. thank you for the Pics. I have two requests.

*what material you used for the tailpice.

* I think that violin tuning pegs seems to be short in relation to the peg box and the whole look of an Oud. To all friends: any idea how to make the tunning pegs ourselves?:)

Jameel - 12-18-2006 at 06:55 AM

thanks mazin.

thats rosewood

to make your own pegs, you need a lathe. there are books and websites that illustrate the process.

Monawar Al-Jabar - 12-18-2006 at 09:58 AM

Hi Jameel :wavey:

WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW No comment :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Mazin - 12-23-2006 at 07:25 PM

Thanks Jameel. Pegs making webs? when you have time. I enjoy making Oud's part as much as completing one.

A Shuker (Mazin):applause: