Mike's Oud Forums

when it comes to maqamt...

blo - 4-6-2006 at 04:01 AM

Regards everyone..

I have been following the discussions on this website forums for a while now and i have to say that the experiance Oudists has and the informative topics being shared here make the reading of this site an obligation everyday..

i have a question that has been bothering me since the time i've started learning maqamat which is about 4 monthes and that is.., when it comes to playing a specific maqam such as Rast on C , comparing to Hussyini on D , the tonic is differant , but when involving all strings ,i don't seem to be able to tell them apart , Eh falt & Bh flat are played the same , so i play the two maqams identically, How can i play each maqam and feal,hear them differant, are there any rules thet control the playing of a maqam ??

Someone might tell me that Rast is differant on the way up than the way down ,perhaps this could be the answer, but i encounter theis problem in a number of other maqamt..

one last thing,the term ((dominant note)) ,a term that i can't seem to fully grasp, what is the use & the utilize

Masters of Chants , Sultans of Oud ,your aid is required

many thanks in advance.......

zalzal - 4-6-2006 at 04:20 AM

Fully agree that "the informative topics being shared here make the reading of this site an obligation everyday.."

Sorry i am not giving any answer here, i have been asking myself exactly the same question when recently i tried to work two taqsim (Omar Naqishbendi in Rast and Muhammad Qadri Dallal in Hussayni). The notes seems almost the same, as you say.....but the two taqsims are so so differents....what a madness....

Well, reading half of yr post, i was going to say that as far as i know the "dominant" of hussayni is based more on G and Rast is more on D....when you put the finger in the injure....what is dominant the use and the utilize. Does it really exists as a concept in maqam music?

So pls to all Emirs, maleks, and mu'alimun of the oud can you help pls ??

Hello and welcome

sydney - 4-6-2006 at 04:52 AM

Thank you for your very good questions
Quote:
Originally posted by blo
Regards everyone..

when it comes to playing a specific maqam such as Rast on C , comparing to Hussyini on D , the tonic is differant , but when involving all strings ,i don't seem to be able to tell them apart , Eh falt & Bh flat are played the same , so i play the two maqams identically, How can i play each maqam and feal,hear them differant, are there any rules thet control the playing of a maqam ??

Someone might tell me that Rast is differant on the way up than the way down ,perhaps this could be the answer, but i encounter theis problem in a number of other maqamt..


If you playing a taqsim in Rast. Where will you finish off your taqsim? and if you play a taqsim in Hussyni which shares E 1/2 flat and B 1/2 falt with Rast where will you finish off your Hussyni taqsim?

I can play a (--------) taqsim and use B flat and 1/2 flat as if I am playing in Rast but if I finish off on D what would be the name of that taqsim? and if I finish off on C what would be the name?
Quote:
Originally posted by blo
one last thing,the term ((dominant note)) ,a term that i can't seem to fully grasp, what is the use & the utilize
Masters of Chants , Sultans of Oud ,your aid is required
many thanks in advance.......


Dominant note "ghamaz" some teachers and old players call it "hasas" or "sensor" is used to shift from one maqam to another "Modulation" see more explaination here ... http://www.maqamworld.com/modulation.html


Please tell us what music / instrument do you play?


Take care

SamirCanada - 4-6-2006 at 05:42 AM

What's this explanation with words Emad??

Play something !! ;)

seriously if you could join a small sound sample of what you mean it would be great. I also have problems with this issue.

blo - 4-6-2006 at 06:06 AM

Quote:
thanks for the kind answer sydney ....



[quote ]Originally Posted by Sydney
I can play a (--------) taqsim and use B flat and 1/2 flat as if I am playing in Rast but if I finish off on D what would be the name of that taqsim? and if I finish off on C what would be the name?



concerning your answer,does this mean when i decide to play a taqsim on rast i have to start on C and end on C..?? , and in case of similar maqamat , do i have to wait till the end of a taqsim and hear the finishing note to decide what maqam this is..??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney

Dominant note "ghamaz" some teachers and old players call it "hasas" or "sensor" is used to shift from one maqam to another "Modulation"



and when modulating from one maqam to another,is it allowed to modulate from the dominant note only , i am asking becoz when playing , certain emotions control the moving from on maqam to anothor,so i feel the urge to jump to a specific maqam from a specific note...,and moving to the dominant could brake the desired atmosphere..


answering your question:i used to play piano a while ago , and now i feel the like i am controlling the universe with the amazing sound of Oud , but a bit of clarifiaction is need to perfect my playing...


i hope you don't mind me asking again,and perhaps again since the subjct is immense , i wish everybody fell obliged to contribute to this matter..


thanks alot.

sydney - 4-6-2006 at 11:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by blo
concerning your answer,does this mean when i decide to play a taqsim on rast i have to start on C and end on C..?? , and in case of similar maqamat , do i have to wait till the end of a taqsim and hear the finishing note to decide what maqam this is..??


No.

Have you read the link I posted for you?
There you will find different ways of moving from one maqam to another. but back to your original question - to play in Rast you need to know how to establish the maqam. To do so you need to play the lower jins of the maqam then the upper jins - if your emtions takes you to a different maqam that shares the same flavor it is okay but finishing off does not mean ending with the first note you started from but the mood you started from.

Samir, when I get a chance I will try to give an example. I know what you mean - it's been bothering me too and I am sure it is bothering many people even those who know how to play some taqsim. Some people do not want to talk about it or ask. instead they ask "what risha do you use?" ;)
Quote:
Originally posted by blo
and when modulating from one maqam to another,is it allowed to modulate from the dominant note only , i am asking becoz when playing , certain emotions control the moving from on maqam to anothor,so i feel the urge to jump to a specific maqam from a specific note...,and moving to the dominant could brake the desired atmosphere..


Listen to lots of taqsims and melodies and study them. You'll gain experience - then you will know when to let your emotions free and when to control them to get back the maqam you want to do the taqsim in.

Mind you, some taqsims finish to a totally different ones. but there must be a reason for that. It has been said by many top artists that learning the art of the taqasim takes a life time but it strongly depends on listenning but this is not the only thing.
Quote:
Originally posted by blo
i hope you don't mind me asking again,and perhaps again since the subjct is immense , i wish everybody fell obliged to contribute to this matter..thanks alot.



No worries mate, I will try to answer to the best of my knowledge and experience. i wish every oud player fell obliged to contribute to this matter..

Stay well blo

mikokiko - 4-7-2006 at 11:19 AM

From my experience of playing, I found that one of the big differences between two different maqamat, like Rast and Bayati, that have the same tonal degrees, but start and end on different notes, is the tonic, which changes a lot.

The Tonic, as defined by Wikipedia is:
The first note of a musical scale, and in the tonal method of musical composition it is extremely important. More generally, the tonic is the pitch upon which all other pitches of a piece are hierarchically centered.

That is why when you play Rast, the emotion and feeling of the maqam is quite different than if you woul dhave played in bayati for example, emmiting a joyful atmosphere. The tonic is like the generator of all musical events.