Mike's Oud Forums

removing the rossette, drilling a peg

amtaha - 8-5-2006 at 08:54 AM

I want to remove rossettes off my oud. However, I don't have any tools. Elie wrote somewhere that, with enough care, an exacto knife can be used, but I'm afraid of the rossettes dropping inside the oud.

I also need to drill a hole in a pig, but I haven't a drill.

Any ideas?

amtaha - 8-5-2006 at 09:15 AM

Seems that my fears have been unfounded. Apparently the main rossete is made in such a way they can get out with the face still attached. I don't know if this is a common thing.

A fine knife, with patient hands, did the job.

Now, it's down to drilling the peg.

Elie Riachi - 8-5-2006 at 09:36 AM

You'll need a drill and a vise for the pegs. Can you maybe barrow the two from someone. Or amybe tak the peg to any workshop even an auto mechanic can do it for you.

amtaha - 8-5-2006 at 09:43 AM

So for the hole placement, what should be a proper place? midway?

Elie Riachi - 8-5-2006 at 01:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by amtaha
So for the hole placement, what should be a proper place? midway?


Midway is probably okay. But before making the hole, I would push the peg in there all the way and turn it untill it is fitted properly and snug. Then mark with a pencil on the peg where the inside walls of the peg box line up with the peg. The hole goes halfway between the two marks. I like to make the hole closer to the mark which near the small end of the peg, so when the oud is strung the windings end up on the side which is farther from the small end of the peg. Others might have a different take on this?

hakeem.ram - 8-5-2006 at 02:52 PM

Hi amtaha,

can you help by providing how you exactly removed the rossette. I would like to do it on mine too. besides what are the adv/disadv of having the rosette removed? Thanks in advanced for your tips!

Cheers

amtaha - 8-5-2006 at 03:43 PM

My reasons behind removing the rossettes is that they were not well made, and they were not aesthetically pleasing.

However, in searching the forum, there are people who believe that an oud without a rossette gives a louder sound.

However, it is also believed by some that a rossete adds sustain to the face.

On my part, I don't have enough experience to affirm any advantage or disadvantage at the moment. I'm yet to string the oud again to find about variations in the sound and I'm hoping that not much sustain is lost in removing the rossettes.

As for what I did, I approached part where the rossette is glued beneath the face with a fine (thin) but strong knife. I did not use an exacto knife. I made sure that I attacked the glue, not the rossette and certainly not the face. I applied pressure gradually, search for a starting place - a place where a rossete would be weekly glued or where the rossette has an opening to access between rossette and the face. Slowly and carefully I went around until the main rossete fell. I did the same with the other two rossettes, and picked them up from inside.

I'll have to do another search to find the different commentaries about the rossettes in the form, but going through the projects and a search on "exacto" would lead you to the main starters.

Note that I'm not sure if all rossettes have this feature that allows you to remove them with the face intact. So have a careful look at the rossete first (if you're interested in keeping it) before you start.

More experienced users are kindly asked to please chip in if they may.

Good luck.

Hamid

amtaha - 8-5-2006 at 03:47 PM

Elie,

Thank you again.

I've noticed something similar to what you're saying with the remaining pegs, and it makes a lot of sense to care for the winding.

I think I'm going to try to buy a vise because I seem to be needing it repeatedly. I'll see what I can do about the drill.

Regards,
Hamid

billkilpatrick - 8-7-2006 at 12:04 AM

the cheap, plastic rose and rosettes came away easily from the soundboard on my cheapy oud with the aid of a thin, flexible, stainless steel, table knife. i didn't care if i ever saw its tacky cleft symbol ever again, so i wasn't too concerned about any damage i might cause it (them) during removal. but i was concerned about how thoroughly it had been glued to the underside of the soundboard - i didn't want to cause a crack in the wood while wrenching away the plastic. in the end, however, the oud's inherent cheapy-ness shown through ... the syrians who "assembled" the instrument (difficult to say "made" in this instance) didn't even glue it all the way around ... it just popped off.

i've talked about the transformation this oud received at the hands of "my" luthier who changed it from a cheap dud to a lovely, full-bodied oud. i removed the roses, however. i didn't notice any difference in the sustain but it sure got louder ... brighter too ... maybe too bright ... in any event, mr. wonderful brought it all back together and made a beautiful, born-again oud.

- bill

Dr. Oud - 8-7-2006 at 08:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by amtaha
Elie,

Thank you again.

I've noticed something similar to what you're saying with the remaining pegs, and it makes a lot of sense to care for the winding.

I think I'm going to try to buy a vise because I seem to be needing it repeatedly. I'll see what I can do about the drill.

Regards,
Hamid
You don't need or want to use a vise, a simple block of wood with a notch cut in it to stabalize the peg will do just fine. The hole should be perpendicular to the face of the grip, or across the grain to avoid splitting the peg. A 1/16 inch (2mm) diameter drill will work for all the strings. I countersink the hole slightly by turning a larger drill at each end just a bit. This will avoid cutting the string over the sharp edge of the drilled hole.

hakeem.ram - 8-8-2006 at 11:51 AM

Greetings all!!

Thanks to those who helped with advise on how to remove the rosettes. My rosettes were plastic one and really did not look that nice. With them removed, it doe snot look any better nonetheless. However there are a few adv/disadvantages to that.

With no rosettes I found that i can stick a small mic into oud and that serves as a reasonabbly good pick up. For a university student with a cheapo oud (perhaps tourist class) it really does pretty well. This oud is set with Aquilla nylgut strings and i am really happy with the performance. Perhaps because I am no conossieur for the quality of oud.

The disadv. of this is that my oud is now pretty bright, rather a tad too bright! Hmmm I would like something which sounds pretty mellow and not too bright. Hmmm now that is what i have. Maybe there can be something that i can do to slightly make the oud more mellow.

All advises are highly appreciated!

Cheers

billkilpatrick - 8-8-2006 at 12:54 PM

dear hakeem.ram -

the brightness you speak of may be knocked back a bit by experimenting with different risha - softer nylon helps - but the sure-fire way to mellow the oud and get it to produce the sound you want is to play it ... a lot. when that starts to happen you'll probably find it'll look pretty good to you too.

sort of like marriage ...

regards - bill

hakeem.ram - 8-8-2006 at 01:44 PM

hi Bill!

How can i send you my wedding invitation?? I am going to marry my oud soon! ;) Thanks for the tip.

i got 2 diff types of risha one is a plastic risha i got from pyramid and another is a self made from some really soft but thick plastic. will try with that. The thing is that i am in germany and i really have no idea where i can get some real good but cheap ones.

As mentioned i am using aquila so that would be high tension ones i suppose, which would give a bright sound ( i think ). Do you think a softer risha would help?

Once again Thanks!

Cheers

amtaha - 8-8-2006 at 08:32 PM

Mr. Hankey,

I'm thankful for your input in this manner.

I just learned that a friend of mine has a drill, but he doesn't thin drills.

Right now, I'm missing an F string on my oud. I'm hoping to resolve this matter though.

Regards,

Hamid