Jonathan - 8-15-2006 at 03:25 PM
I wasn't going to make a thread on this, but I really love the way it is turning out, so I thought I would put up a couple of shots of one I am making
now.
I am not going to bore you with a step-by-step on this, but I will post a couple of more shots when she is done.
I am trying to get it to look like this oud, which is from the late 1940s, and which I love. It is a hanum oud, though, and I want something a bit
more full size. In fact, I am shooting for Arabic size on this one.
Jonathan - 8-15-2006 at 03:26 PM
Cool, huh?
I know that the points at the base are not perfect, but they are really pretty close. I am going to put a small little inlay in there at the end.
The bottom maple ribs still have to be trimmed back.
So, this is going to be oud #2 for me. 5 million times easier for me than oud #1.
And the bowl is super light. Much, much lighter than oud #1 (that oud ended up weighing 2 lbs 15 oz--not too bad, but I am shooting for 2lbs 8 or
less this time, I hope).
Jonathan - 8-15-2006 at 03:29 PM
It's a quilted maple, which will get a lot more noticeable at the end. It is just sanded to 80 grit for now. Still a few glue spots to get off.
Jonathan - 8-15-2006 at 03:32 PM
And, I guess, while I am posting pics, I might as well put one up of my oud holder thing.
You can rotate the oud into any position you want, and secure it in that position. It is adjustable so that it will also work when the neck is on,
and when the pegbox is on. Not that much help yet, but it might be when I get a little further on--fitting the braces, putting on the face, putting
on the purfling trim. We'll see.
Jonathan - 8-15-2006 at 03:37 PM
Just one more shot, so you can see that the thing can rotate.
Jameel - 8-15-2006 at 03:47 PM
What an honor to be the first one to reply!
This bowl is looking great Jonathan, I can see a big improvement from the first one. You are getting some great skills working with the alternating
woods. (I'm not so brave) And I really like the lack of spacers. Can't wait to see it finished. Your oud-holding fixture is also very clever. Can we
get a wider shot of your workspace? I see some interesting looking objects in the background.
TruePharaoh21 - 8-15-2006 at 04:30 PM
Jonathan,
This is great, man! The choice of alternating wood types matches one of the ouds that I have from Fathi Amin, and is also the same as one on which
Riad el-Sunbati played on in a video interview. Both are great ouds, and, God willing, this one will be even greater!
Hopefully, we'll get to see this progressing project this coming weekend.
TP21
Hosam - 8-15-2006 at 08:26 PM
Way to go Jonathan! I love the look of the bowl. This maple is going to look great when finished. Please take more than Just a couple of shots 
Jonathan - 8-16-2006 at 03:20 AM
Jameel, I will try, but there is nothing to special to show. There are a few oud forms you can see lying around--just different shapes I have been
fooling around with. And, if I pulled back a little more, you would see a couple of bowls I started and, for whatever reason, was dissatisfied with
and abandoned.
I've been fooling around with that idea of curving the rib a couple of degrees accross its width, but I did not put it into practice on this one. It
is not that tough to do, but I am not sure how much of a benefit it will be, especially when there are a lot of ribs. Maybe next time.
Part of what made this bowl so easy was the way of fitting the ribs, which I learned from your thread. Rather than tapering both sides of the rib
blank to rough shape, I finally realized that only one side had to be tapered. The other side could be left as a straight line, relatively untouched
except for some fine tuning. That made all of the difference.
I sort of like the oud holder thing. On my first oud, I always felt like I was a couple of hands short. That's why I initially made that foam padded
simple holder that you can see behind that new holder I made. But, that was limited in that I really could not rotate the oud--it was only good when
the face was straight up.
This new holder I made will lock the oud into any position (that's what those small capped dowels in the lower left do by locking the large dowel in
the rack), and hopefully will make the fitting of the face and braces easier (and, perhaps, the purfling). I made a sleeve that will fit around the
peg box and secure it, and rotate it, when it is finally placed on the neck).
Hosam, TP, thanks a lot. I am just trying to improve a bit with each. I think this bowl, though, is going to look pretty cool. My next one, though,
is going to be all dark--either all walnut or walnut and rosewood. I am bending the wood now.
I will post some shots when I am done, but this is going to take a while.
SamirCanada - 8-16-2006 at 12:49 PM
Keep going Jonathan. Iam so proud of you. Since Iam trying to get started with my first bowl too. I had a few ribs in but its really hard to fit them.
Iam going to study Jameel's way of doing it. I just recieved Doc O's book witch is going to help for the dimensions. Thanks.
Mike - 8-16-2006 at 04:48 PM
This is looking great JV. I can't wait to see it this weekend.
mavrothis - 8-16-2006 at 06:19 PM
Beautiful Jonathan! Man, it's so great to see you guys building your own instruments. I'm looking forward to seeing your work close up this weekend.
mavrothis
Jason - 8-16-2006 at 08:44 PM
Looks good Jonathan. That maple is going to look great. Is there any reason we don't see more flamed maple necks on ouds? Most guitar builders
claim the wood isn't stable enough but it works fine for violin family instruments. Would it work for oud?
Benjamin - 8-17-2006 at 06:42 AM
Good job Jonathan
The first picture of the oud you are trying to inspirate yourself, looks pretty much like..my oud (from Syria)
Benjamin - 8-17-2006 at 06:44 AM
I'm just amazed to see people here making their own oud. If I would try that I'm sure the oud would buzz or will fall in parts after one taqasim..
Jonathan - 8-18-2006 at 08:37 AM
If I can do it, anybody can, Benjamin. T
Thanks
Jonathan - 9-12-2006 at 04:11 AM
I used spruce for the neck, with a small rosewood stringer, and maple and mahogany veneers. Nothing is attached yet, but it is looking OK. That's
not the stringer you are seeing in the middle of the neck--just ebony veneer.
A lot of work still to be done on the peg box. I'm going to carry that banded pattern of maple and mahogany into the scroll cap on top of the peg
box.
On the back of the pegbox, in the middle, you will see a larger white (maple) spacer, where I thought I would write in "2006". It's all a bit rough
now, but I think it will shine up very nicely at the end.
My next goal is to inlay some contrasting wood strips into the top portion of the peg box, rather than just have the maple sides. Probably just a
thin band of dark purfling, and some mahogany. That should give it a little more of a completed look. I hope.
SamirCanada - 9-12-2006 at 05:18 AM
Looking good Jonathan.
Good stuff!!
abusin - 9-12-2006 at 05:57 AM
Hi Jonathan,
beautiful looking oud mate, since your last project everyone can see your sense of creativity and passion in your approach to your projects and its
fine details, as your previous oud ( which still decorates my desktop ) this one is a master peice too.
Big up, Jonathan and please don't stop and amaze us more and more..
best regards to you and all,
Awad
oudplayer - 9-12-2006 at 07:30 AM
jon
I am liking man keep it up
thx sammy
Jonathan - 12-28-2006 at 04:44 PM
Finally some time to work on it. I remade the neck. Remade the pegbox.
Still needs a lot of sanding down, but I think the wood is going to look really nice at the end.
There were a couple of things with my first oud that I was not happy with.
First and foremost, the neck was a little thick. This neck is much, much slimmer.
This oud is also a lot lighter. The last one weighed in at 2 lbs 15oz. I want to shave at least 8 oz off of that, if possible.
Jonathan - 12-28-2006 at 04:50 PM
I'll have to smooth out the inner surfaces of the holes, but its coming along.
The face isn't attached yet, but at least it is largely finished. I like the face really simple like this. I was even hesitant to do that little
inlay at 12 o'clock.
I used a router for that outer ring on the central hole. Before, I used a circle cutter and a blade to dig out the channels for the purfling strips.
I used the circle cutter/blade on all of the other locations. Way too much work. The router makes it a whole lot easier. I am actually looking
forward to doing another face down the road.
That little bit of ebony/m.o.p at 12 oclock--I dug out the rectangle from the face with a blade. Is that how it is done, or do people generally use
routers for stuff like that? I'm a newbie at all this woodworking stuff.
Jonathan - 12-28-2006 at 05:01 PM
Not sure what I am going to put on the top of the peg box. I used a Turkish-looking scrolling top on my last one, but this time I might just put a
cap of bone on top of this one--a little more Arabic looking, I guess.
I should have cleaned this up a bit more before posting the pics, but I am not going to be working on it again for a few more weeks.
May 1. That's the goal for finishing it.
Now to start working on the rosettes. I want to come up with my own pattern this time around.
Jameel - 12-28-2006 at 06:34 PM
Looking very nice Jonathan. I was wondering how you were coming along with this project. Sharp label, btw.
Hosam - 12-28-2006 at 06:40 PM
Looking good Jonathan, I like the newer version of the neck more!
For routing cavity for inlay work a Dremel tools with small router base will work just fine.
Jonathan - 12-28-2006 at 06:46 PM
Cool. Thanks. I'll try that.
mavrothis - 12-29-2006 at 06:32 AM
Great work Jonathan! Looking forward to hearing this oud.
Keep it up my friend,
mavrothis
Jonathan - 6-6-2007 at 09:14 AM
Dang! Coming up with a rosette design was tougher than I thought. But, here's what I came up with, just drawn on paper. Seems like it ought to be
easy to come up with a design, but it was not.
On my first oud I stole a pattern off of another oud's rosette. Actually, it was an oud that my grandfather made, so in my mind it was rationalized
as being a "tribute." But, this time around, I wanted my own pattern.
Now I am going to just glue the paper onto the rosette material (mircada this time), and start using the scroll saw. Then, I will remove the paper at
the end.
That bird at 11 o'clock on the central rosette might be a bit much--I might end up deleting that.
Was there a computer program that would have made this all a bit easier? The central portion is geometric, although the scrolling vine on the
perimeter is all free-form, so I am guessing that it would not lend itself all that well to a computer program.
ALAMI - 6-6-2007 at 09:42 AM
Jonathan
Check this old thread, I'll be adding some stuff tonight
http://www.arabicouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=5157&...
Jonathan - 8-25-2007 at 09:21 AM
Thanks for the link.
I just realized how much I hate this part of the project. I've decided to give the laser cut method a try this time around. If anybody happens to
know anybody in the Los Angeles area that does this type of thing, please let me know. Thanks!
Jonathan - 11-20-2007 at 08:42 AM
This is the third bowl that I have applied a finish to. The first was to the oud that I made, then to one that I restored, and now to this one. Each
time, I used something different for the finish.
With the first, I used Tru Oil Sealer and Tru Oil Finish. For the second, I used Tru Oil Sealer and Polyurethane. For this one, I used Pore-O-Pac
grain sealer and shellac, and I am happiest so far with the results this time around. I used pre-mixed shellac, both the brush on stuff and the
shellac in an aerosol can. Incredibly easy to use, and it gives the wood a richness that I did not see before with the other finishes--although,
admittedly, that probably has a lot to do with technique (or, more accurately, lack of technique).
So, not nearly done, but there's two coats of sealer on here, and 3 coats of shellac. The shellac is dry, but not yet rubbed down.
I wish I got a better shot of the quilting on the maple--you can sort of see it on the far ribs.
The shellac gave it all a very slight golden color, which I like a lot.
I am tempted to put a coat or two of polyurethane on at the very end, just for protection. Is this ok? Polyurethane over shellac?
Jonathan - 11-20-2007 at 08:51 AM
.
Still haven't put the finish on the neck or pegbox. Not really happy with the pegbox, and I am tempted to knock it off and do it over.
Jameel - 11-21-2007 at 05:10 AM
Pretty wood. So is it done? Let's hear it.
Jonathan - 11-21-2007 at 05:25 AM
Nope. Not done yet. Hopefully, by the end of the year.
Jonathan - 12-24-2007 at 04:21 PM
OK. I have one week that I can devote to completing this oud. I hope to have it done before the first of the year.
I did this in an unorthodox manner, I suppose. I put the finish on the oud before putting on the face, or fingerboard.
On my last oud, I had a tough time adequately masking the oud, and I got a spot of tru-oil on the face that I could not get off--small enough that
most people won't notice it, but enough to bug me.
This time around, I figured I would do all the finish work first, then put on the face.
So, if it looks different than the last time around, it is because, after 2 coats of grain sealer, and 8 coats of shellac, I put on 5 coats of
polyurethane. I sanded between each coat, then let the whole thing sit for a couple of weeks before I used pumice and rottenstone. Finally, I used
some paste wax. It got a really nice, rich finish. I'm sold on shellac--I love the slight warmth that it imparts to the wood. I like the look a
lot better than what I achieved with tru-oil on my first oud, and much better than what I got using only polyurethane on that refinish I did a while
ago.
In the background, the face--I hope to put her on in the morning. And, finally, bowl number 3 (no need to critique the finish on that one--it's just
got a little bit of shellac on it).
mavrothis - 12-26-2007 at 06:37 AM
Looks beautiful Jonathan, great work!
mavrothis
Jonathan - 12-26-2007 at 11:59 AM
Thanks, Mav.
Not done, but the face and fingerboard are on. I have a single string on there to hold the nut in place while it glues. A lot of volume. Can't wait
to play it.
Still have to do some touch ups--some sanding of the edge banding, some little re-touches to the finish. There's a bunch of blue tape on the bowl,
just protecting the finish a bit until I am done.
I hope to have it strung up in a couple of days.
Mike - 12-26-2007 at 12:45 PM
Looks beautiful JV. Old school looking oud. Very nice. The rosettes came out killer too. You should be proud buddy!
Multi Kulti - 12-27-2007 at 03:02 AM
Jonathan Congratulations...i cant wait to hear the sound of your creation. Mike has right rosettes are very nice and authentic too..
Jonathan - 12-31-2007 at 04:20 AM
Thanks, guys. Very much.
New Years Eve, and she's all done. Sounds very good to my ears--very full, tons of volume. I guess I attribute that primarily to making the face a
whole lot thinner this time around. I'll post a sound sample next week when the strings settle in a bit.
If you take a look at the very bottom of the face, you will see a very thin band of tiled-edge purfling just inside the edge banding. I trimmed a bit
too much of the face when I was fitting it, and this band made up the difference. I sort of like it, though. It contains pink ivory, mulberry, and
ebony--the woods I am using on the next oud (sort of a foreshadowing). For my next oud, I'm toying with the idea of going a little further with
this--a thin band of tile edge purfling all around the face, then the solid black band on the outside.
The action is really low--intentionally. It took me forever to sand the fingerboard down to get rid of all the buzzing, but I finally got there. The
bowl itself has a really nice dip in it--I was a lot more aggressive with the dip this time than I was the last time. I wish I could get a picture of
it, but I haven't really been able to capture it.
Jonathan - 12-31-2007 at 04:24 AM
I wish I had more of this maple.
So that's that. My second oud. Finally done.
Jesse Frank - 12-31-2007 at 05:19 AM
Looks great! I really like the rose!
Jameel - 12-31-2007 at 05:39 AM
Congratulations Jonathan! Looks fantastic. The bowl woods are, again, beautiful. The finish looks very nice too. Can't wait to hear it.
Jonathan - 1-3-2008 at 07:35 PM
Thanks!!
OK--now for the disaster follow up.
I finished the oud on 12/31. I had to travel by plane on 1/1, and I decided to take the oud with me.
You know where this story is going. . .
I have an incredible hard case that I like to use. It's just unbelievably strong. I think you could drop an oud in this case from several stories
and the oud would live through it without any problems at all.
So, when the airline told me that I could not take the oud on the plane with me, I was upset, but figured I would be OK.
But of course, that was not the case.
Security went through the case (the only thing in there was the oud, of course), and, apparently when they went to return the oud to the case, they
did not put it in properly.
This is one of those cases where the shape of the case is custom made to the shape of an oud, so the oud has to be tilted at a slight angle, and the
tip of the peg box has to be inserted first. Otherwise, it just won't go.
Somebody apparently could not figure that out.
And it arrived with the neck broken off.
To make matters worse, the back of the neck was broken for about 1 cm. I had two dowel rods joining the neck to the neck block, and the dowel rods
were more resistant than the mahogany neck. So the dowel rods stayed perfectly intact, but the back of the neck broke.
I can post pictures, but I think you get the idea.
So, I have spent the past couple of days doing repair work. I hope that the neck can be saved--I think it can. I glued it all back together, and
then reset the neck.
I had originally gotten an incredibly low action, but it rose slightly when I reset it. After waiting for 24 hours, I tuned it up, played a quick
song, and was worried that I might be stressing out the neck too much, so I took the strings out of tension for the time being. In a couple of days I
will tune it up again. I know the glue is dry by now, but there is no need to take any extra risk.
Fortunately, the bowl and soundboard escaped without any harm.
The sound is fairly great. My playing remains fairly miserable.
Hopefully, this post will contain a sound sample
Jameel - 1-3-2008 at 07:43 PM
What a disappointment, Jonathan. Glad you got it fixed though.
I can't believe this has happened to both ouds now! I would be fuming. I mean, breaking something in your own shop (I broke Mike's soundboard just a
about an hour ago--and am still nauseated from it) is one thing, but when someone else does it? I would like to ring their necks. You should write
your Senator. These airlines get away with anything with no responsibility. I would sue them. Grrrrrr!
On the other hand, I hope you've learned. Take your oud in a soft case on board with you, and never let your oud out of your site. Sad to say, but
what a great example of how even the toughest case can be worthless, and even harmful.
Jonathan - 1-3-2008 at 07:50 PM
The cool thing is, though, Jameel, that the sound on this thing is pretty wonderful. I haven't been that impressed with the sound I got on my first
oud, or on that restoration. But this puppy just rings out forever. As much volume as any oud I have ever heard, and really a brilliant sound. Very
full throughout. The high end is just super shiny bright, and the low end is really really full. Planing down the soundboard some more really helped
out a lot.
I can't seem to post the sound sample, but I am going to keep trying. I've got it down to 1 MB, but it just won't post.
The thing that bugs me, though, is that I spent forever when I was making the oud to get the action just right. The action was so low, but clear. It
rose just a bit this time, and I am not happy with it, so I will probably reset it. But, as you can understand, I am angry a bit, and I just can't do
the job decently when I feel like that. I'm probably going to let the oud stand for a month or so until I re-attempt it, if I do go ahead and reset
it. I am just hoping that the neck holds. We'll see.
Jonathan - 1-3-2008 at 08:06 PM
OK, let's try this again. I just cut the sample off at the end, so there's now just a minute of playing here, but at least you will be able to hear
something from it.
There are no effects on here, just me and a recorder. Wish the playing was better.
I know I am biased on this one, but I really like the sound. My first one did not have anywhere near this volume, nor this tone. The result on that
one oud that I restored was slightly better than my first oud, but this one is much better. There's really no comparison.
I'm trying to figure out what I did differently this time around, but I can really only come up with the face being thinner. Also, I put a much more
pronounced dip in the face this time around. I've seen some of those old Karibians that have just a huge dip in the face--this isn't that pronounced,
but it is definitely noticeable.
Final weight, with the strings, is 2 lbs 6 oz. the first oud was 2 lbs 15 oz. A little better.
Jameel - 1-4-2008 at 06:00 PM
Sounds great Jonathan. Definitely better than the last. I'm the same as you regarding fixing things. Let it rest for a while, and your enthusiasm will
return. I always do better work when I cool off for a while.
For example, there was one issue with Mike's oud that was giving me fits, I was at a point where I didn't know what to do. I let it go for a few days,
then when I went to take care of it, the solution took all of 5 minutes, and was quite easy. I know that if I'd worked on in an agitated state, I
would have just made it worse.
So yeah, let the oud live for a while and maybe you'll decide that the action is just right...