jdowning - 10-23-2006 at 02:42 PM
Orahim1 raised an interesting, valid and important question in his recent posting on p3 "How about some Oud Tab?" I am posting this as a separate
thread so that the subject does not get 'lost' in this active forum
Tablature notation is a specialised notation for fretted instruments (as well as keyboard and wind instruments) that has been around since the early
16th C in Europe and is still very much in use today. It has also been adapted for folk violin - an unfretted instrument - so could just as easily be
applied to the oud.
The advantage of tablature is that it dictates the precise left hand finger positions on the fingerboard - as well as note duration etc. and is easy
to learn but, unlike modern staff notation, does not indicate the relative pitch of the notes making it difficult for the more inexperienced player to
'hear' the melody from the notation.
I am a newcomer to the oud - from a background of the european lute where the ability to read tablature is essential - but can see that the benefits
of tablature as a notation might just as well, beneficially, apply to the oud.
There are a number of software programs available at reasonable cost - currently designed for lute and guitar players but which might also be readily
developed for the oud as well. These programs not only allow the user to compile and edit music in tablature but also facilitate transpositions,
converting to staff notation etc. etc. They also provide a MIDI facilities to enable the composition in tablature or staff notation to be played back
- a feature that might be a very useful feature for a beginner trying to learn a piece (as well as for checking the composition for errors).
I am currently evaluating three programs from the perspective of a lutenist. Others, with more knowledge about the oud and its music than I currently
have, might be interested in checking out these programs to determine if they might be of value in developing a tablature system for the oud?
The following are available for free download for trial evaluation purposes :
FRONIMO - http://www.theaterofmusic.com/fronimo/index.html
DJANGO - http://webpages.charter.net/django/
TABLEDIT - http://www.tabledit.com
There may be others. The cost of the above fully functional registered software ranges from about $60 to $150 US.
John
Jason - 10-23-2006 at 08:43 PM
I see a few problems with using tab on the oud...
There is really no 'standard' tuning for the oud. Tab ignores the aural aspect of notes and only focuses on the position. If someone is using a
different tuning than the tab author then everything will be wrong.
I fail to see how tab would be superior to standard notation on the oud. One could argue that it will help beginning players who may not know the
notes on the oud but should we really condone such a shortcut? I think it is essential to learn the makams in several positions and in as many
octaves as possible.
Even if you were to follow the logic that it will help beginning players I think that the nature of the instrument, being fretless, would negate the
tab system. If someone is just starting out it's unlikely they will be able to 'hear' where 7th position is in relation to 2nd position. With
fretted instruments you simply count the frets but with a fretless instrument one must be able to hear the interval before it is played.
With standard notation a beginning player could play each note and check their pitch against an electronic tuner.
But the biggest obstacle I see is that I can find hundreds and hundreds of sheets online but I have only seen a few short examples of oud tunes tabbed
out.
I may be a bit jaded, as I've had standard notation drilled into my head every day for the last 7 years hehe 
I'm not one of these people that sees no value with tab, however. I think it's one of the best learning tools
available for fretted instruments.
jdowning - 10-25-2006 at 05:20 AM
Thanks for your comments Jason. I am not an oud player, or familiar with traditional custom and practice applicable to learning oud, so I may be
overlooking something here, but I do not understand why tablature specifically developed for the oud would be problematical. Such a tablature would be
simpler than lute or guitar tab because it would essentially - but not excluively - represent a single melodic line whereas lute and guitar tab
usually represent a polyphonic composition of four or five simultaneous lines. This would make oud tablature even easier to learn than that for
lute.
Variations in instrument tuning is not really a problem. Like the oud neither lute nor folk/jazz guitar have a single standard tuning either. Tab also
is written for a variety of tunings. Therefore, the tuning of an instrument must, of course, match the tuning specified by the tablature. If not the
player must either retune the instrument accordingly, or use a more appropriate instrument for a particular composition in tablature.
The fact that an oud is fretless does not negate the tablature system for the instrument at all. Violin players may also use tab and violins are
fretless. Regardless of whether staff notation or tab is used, a beginning oud or violin player must still be able to determine the various positions
on the fingerboard and train mind and muscle through practice so that accurate location of the positions is instinctive. This can be achieved by
listening to an ascending scale of notes from a tuner, keyboard instrument (or computer) and replicating the pitches by ear on the oud.
I am not suggesting that tab is superior to staff notation - far from it. It is just another form of notation that can be picked up in a matter of
days - a great advantage for one who just wants to get started in playing the oud and who may not initially aspire to being a professional musician or
composer and spend years in studying musical theory. In any case, music making should go far beyond the information that the notation - tablature or
staff - can possibly provide. Very few performers are able to reach the standard of a virtuoso and it is what they do between the written notes that
makes all the difference.
If tab is a good learning tool for fretted instruments then it follows that it can also be a good learning tool for the oud. Once there is a demand
for oud tab a supply is bound to follow - and computer software currently available and under development will greatly facilitate the publication of
oud tab as well as being a very useful tool for the more serous musician. Could be a profitable line of business for some entrepreneur?
John
TablEdit now supporting quarter tones
Ariel - 10-30-2007 at 02:35 AM
Hi !
I recently saw in a forum that TablEdit is now supporting quarter tones. I thought it might be an interesting news in this discusion.
Brian Prunka - 10-30-2007 at 06:33 AM
I don't see much of an advantage in tablature for oud, but the "no standard tuning" issue is actually an advantage of tablature vs. standard
notation.
Regardless of the tuning employed, all oud tunings have the same relationship between the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th courses. So different oud players
using different tunings could for the most part use the same tab for a tune, and it would sound right on each of them (though not together, since they
would all be in different keys).
Otherwise, the standard notation would have to be transposed, or the player would need to transpose in his head, like if I want to read a Turkish
chart on my Arabic-tuned oud.
The variations on oud tunings are really fairly minor, since they involve only the 5th and 6th courses, which are not as heavily used or have mostly a
supporting role.
tablature could be particularly helpful in notating an exact transcription of a performance, as you could provide fingering etc. (which of course is
also possible in standard notation).
the main problem i see is notating quarter tones. I suggest the following positions: 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 3.5, 4, 5, along the lines of saz/buzuq
fingering.
you could even get crazy and try to indicate other fingering subtleties.
hijaz might be: 0, 1.2, 3.8, 5
I guess since I've been reading standard notation for about 17 years, it's just much easier and faster for me than tab. Also, since 90% of oud music
is in the first & second positions, it doesn't take much effort to learn to read the handful of notes encompassed there.
Jack_Campin - 11-2-2007 at 09:43 AM
Ud music is song-based - you have a tune in your head and you're reproducing it on the instrument. The intonation has to come from inside, not off
some diagram of where to put your fingers. Tablature is for instruments that do essentially unvocal music.
Written notation for the ud was invented long before that for any Western instrument - about 1000 years ago. It was an alphabetic pitch notation and
NOT a tablature. With a relatively limited range and only one way to place each note on the fingerboard, there wasn't any point in tab.
I've seen French violin tablature once, in a manuscript written in Scotland around 1675. It must have seemed like a good idea at the time, I've no
idea why. It sank without trace.
carpenter - 11-2-2007 at 10:28 AM
<< It must have seemed like a good idea at the time, I've no idea why. It sank without trace. >>
Hmm. I've been playing fiddle for 20-some years, and I've seen only one tune book for fiddle in tab - American Old-Time - and that was written by a
banjo player! In my opinion, that explains much.
I play mostly Irish and Scandinavian fiddle, and am chiefly an ear player. Not everything is written down, or is hard to find; there is lots of
person-to-person transmission in the tradition. I say there's no substitute for hearing and listening - if you know the tune well enough to whistle it
while you walk, you've got it nailed well enough to find it on a fingerboard. Oud material might be a different story, but I doubt it; I don't pick
that much oud yet. Memory is a wonderful thing, and hearing tunes in your head is a prize.
MatthewW - 11-3-2007 at 02:34 AM
Salaam everyone. I've been reading this thread with great interest. John has presented a very good question regarding tablature for the oud, and the
replies are all very well presented, both pros and cons. I came to the oud from a guitar playing background, and so have some experience of using
tablature. I also read music, so can sort of step back and objectively compare both approaches to playing. For a fretted instrument as the guitar, I
have found tablature to be helpeful, especially when giving lessons to beginners who do not read music. You want to get them playing a melody quickly
without spending a lot of time teaching them to read, and tablature is excellent for this. I have also went through a period of trying ( trying is the
operative word here) to play flamenco guitar. I discovered a guy based in Paris who did tablature versions of flamenco guitar solos, and not just the
easy stuff. He had tabbed out amazing stuff by Paco De Lucia, Tomatito, Vincente Amigo and others just to name a few, and they were 99% accurate. How
he did I have no idea, he must have had some cool software, but the point was that it really helped to have the recording of whatever flamenco guitar
solo it was that you got the tablature for. You could listen to it being played and follow along on the tablature. As complicated as this flamenco
guitar tab was, I found it worked excellently and was felt it was a lot easier than trying to read the same solos if written in musical notation! I
think part of the reason why I found looking at numbers on the lines easier for this music (which holds true for much rock guitar tablature) is that a
lot of the soloing takes place in the upper register, and on a guitar this would mean having a lot of notes written well above the staff, which can do
your head in a bit when looking at these high notes and trying to play them in the upper register.However looking at numbers was so much easier, like
12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 etc and just jump to that fret . With an oud, most of the notes do not go above high C.
On the other hand, I've played transcriptions of Bach's lute solos on the guitar reading from standard musical notation which worked quite well. I
think if this type of music, and especially Bach, was in tablature form only it might not have felt as nice. To me, one of the things I find
appealing to notation is that when you look at the notes, not only will it give you all the information you need like the time value, but there is
something happening aesthically as well. The actual notes placed on the stave are beautiful symbols in and of themselves, representing a creative
process deeper and even mystical which we express as music. I don't think the numbers used in tablature would have the same effect.
A point mentioned above is that tablature really works best for fretted instruments, and I tend to agree with this. Maybe that's why it never caught
on with violin players. You can see a number and instantly find it on the fretboard with a fretted instrument. With the oud, even if we used a
tablature method to include half and quarter notes as 1, 1.5,2,2.5 and so on, unless a person was playing oud for a while and was familiar with the
non fretted fingerboard, it might take a few seconds to locate just where 3.5 was. With proper music notation and using the arabic method that
indicates quarter flat or quarter sharp notes, one can find exactly where the note is. perhaps using tablature can be useful in the very early stage
of learning oud, but I think if one became too dependent on using tablature only and not make the effort to read music then he or she would be missing
out on something really wonderful. Learning to read music is not that difficult, and the rewards are great. If we are going to go through the trouble
of reading tablature for the oud and indicate the time value of each tab number above the tablature stave with something resembling a proper musical
notated sign, then we may as well just go that extra mile and read proper music notation where all the information is contained in the notes. So to
make a long story short, I think tablature may be useful in the early stages of learning oud ( for what oud tablature there is available) but this
ought to go hand in hand with learning to read music properly. However there are gifted oud players who neither read music or bother with tablature,
they learn by listening and playing, which is admirable if one can do this well. At the end of the day we each find our way to play oud, and if
tablature works for one, and musical notation for another, then ces't la vie. As long as we keep rising above any limitations and move forward,
musically speaking! This will be different for each person.
Getting back to your question on the tab software, I had a peek at the ones you mention John and I thought 'Django' looked nice.
jdowning - 11-3-2007 at 07:04 AM
Perhaps violin tab should be called fiddle tab? I do not play violin (fiddle) and I guess that tab did not catch on historically for violin players
but was possibly only used by some 17th C theorists like Mersenne and Zannetti. However, a quick search on the web would seem to indicate that it is
quite a different matter today where fiddle tab is being used by a number of teachers who have found it useful to get young children (and adults)
started in playing simple tunes of sorts after only a few minutes practice. Apparently, pupils then move on later to learn staff notation, music
theory etc. in depth once they have developed the necessary basic skills and ear etc.
I agree with MathewW that there might be a risk of sticking with tablature notation and not taking the trouble to learn any other. Not that the
ability to read tablature (or staff notation for that matter) means that one then has the ability to interpret and perform music in a meaningful way
or that all music written in tablature is simple stuff written for beginners - far from it!
I suppose that the lutenist is a bit of a special case in that the vast majority of music surviving for lute (about 30,000 pieces according to some
researchers) is written or printed in tablature form. A lutenist wanting to explore this repertoire in depth from original source material would have
a difficult time of it if not fluently familiar with the various forms of lute tablature. Prior to 1500 lute tablature was not used and it is very
unlikely that the great lute virtuosi of the 16th and 17th C. were dependant upon reading from lute tablature either. Their skill and training gave
them the ability to translate their musical thoughts, creations and emotions directly by means of a lute/guitar/vihuela/viola or whatever - without
need for tablature. The invention of lute tablature, and a suitable method of printing it, in my view, seems to have been mostly intended for a market
of those aspiring to learn to become lute players (a coveted social grace) and to learn from the great masters this way. Another advantage is that
tablature gives the exact fingering of the strings intended by the composer - invaluable information for researchers.
Diverting a bit, the question of frets is an interesting one. The oud at one time was fretted (generally until the 14th C but even as late as 1630
according to H.G. Farmer in his paper of 1939 "Was the Arabian and Persian Lute Fretted?") a tradition carried on in the lute of Western Europe.
Conversely, as another example, some of the early American banjos were fretless and were often played with violin accompaniment - perhaps that might
explain the origins of the American-Old-Time publication Jim?.
I don't know if fiddles ever had frets (although I believe that their direct ancestors the mediaeval vielle and rebab did) but I sometimes wish that
some of the fiddle players that I hear today locally would fit frets on their instruments to help eliminate the painful discordant intonation evident
in their playing!!
jdowning - 11-3-2007 at 02:03 PM
P.S. Django is a nice piece of software - dedicated to early music notation - that I use and would recommend to other lute players. As a bonus, it
also comes with a huge collection of tablature all ready for download and printing in clear, worked out, performing editions of original lute
tablature publications.