Mike's Oud Forums

The Sale of Joseph - Moroccan qaseed

Rambaldi47 - 12-15-2006 at 10:10 AM

This is a wonderful qaseed telling the tale of The Sale of Joseph,
written in the Book of Genesis in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament). Sang by Joe Amar, in a concert performed
by the Israeli Andalusian Orchestra. Has a consistant
pattern to it and the verses written in rhymes.

It starts with the Nouba (a maqam equivalent) Mayya

and it goes through the family of those scales (sadly, never
learnt all of them so I cannot tell you their names) but one that
I can distinctly remember is biytain l'madid which is a mawal
for Higaz l'kbir based songs as one of the verses (this is 37min
long...it has about 20 of them!) shift to that maqam


Just a short introduction. I wouldn't wanna bore you with all
the details:
The Andalusian Nauba is probably the most significant musical
form of the North African region. originated in Córdoba, Spain
during the 9th century by Ali Ibn-Nafia, Nicknamed "Zirab".
The assumption is that he created 24 Noubas based on 24
musical modes. Today, there are 3 tradition preserved:
Tunisia - The early style of Seville, Algeria - the Córdoba
Tradition, and Morocco - The continuation of Great Valencia
School.
Today, In Morocco, there are 11th Noubas known as well
as 5 "orphaned" ones. This repertory also known as
"Al-Hayyik" after the name of the poet in the 18th century who gathered what was kept till that time in order to preserve it.
In Algeria - 14 Noubas are known; In Tunisa & Lybia - 13.

The Interval system in the Andalusian Scales is rather different
than the one known in the Eastern Araic music.
Though equivalent to the western intervals and written
just as such, in the practical usage of that music, microtones
are being used and it seems there's no clear foundation
intact to the classical theory.

http://rapidshare.com/files/7613059/Israeli_Andalusian_Orchestra_-_...

*Thanks to piyut.org.il for such extensive interactive information*

zalzal - 12-16-2006 at 02:56 AM

Thank you Rambaldi 47, it is allways great to bring back the subject of arabo-andaluso-northafrican music.

I would not take the legend of Ziriab as bread ready to eat. How can a single man create 24 noubas which will be still played same way thousands years later??.
I think Zyriab, the blackbird, was a very clever artist (not only music) who succeeded to innovate, transform and create the arts in away that matched completely the taste of his contemporaries. He was so appreciated and loved that his legend grew and grew and grew.

He may have created some noubas and give guidelines for its structure.

A nouba is not exactly like a maqam, a nouba is a complete music structure with different sections and rythm inside, with instrumental and vocal sections, like an occidental symphonie, and each nouba is based in a tab3 (pl. tubu3a). The tubu3a are more or less like maqams, more or less.

So litlle by little, year after year, century after century, musicians were creating, anonymously, this great corpus wich are the noubas. The tradition is not one person who created thousand of years ago and then the future generations followed exactly and blindly the first guidelines. The tradition is an evolution with generations adding and changing things inside.

Having said that we may better understand what is the arabo-andaluso-NORTHAFRICAN music. We can not say that it was created by Zyriab and that "3 tradition preserved: Tunisia - The early style of Seville, Algeria - the Córdoba Tradition, and Morocco - The continuation of Great Valencia School."
It is like saying that andalusian music came into Maghreb and it is still played as BEFORE.
Since XIth century there were a constant flow of andalusian muslim or jews "travellers" (war and prosecutions forced exiled travellers) to North Africa. This lasted till 1616, when the last moorish were expelled. THis is 700 years of people coming in North africa.
And in North Africa they found different moods, feelings, forms, rythms etc. All of this was mixed little by little and that is what today is called arabo-andaluso-Northafrican music.
I mean the part of northafrican music in arabo andalusian music is very important, if not the most.
I do not think we can confirm historically that Tunisia is the early style of Seville, Algeria is fm Cordoba and Morocco fm Valencia....i can not believe it.
In the medieval centuries people travelled a lot and crossed borders and frontiers specially between Al andalus and Maghreb. Do not forget that the Mediterranean was a muslim lake till XVIIth century. (Not like today, with borders, walls, fences, and stupid barriers).
What people brought fm fabulous AlAndalus civilisation to Magreb (another fabulous civilisation in fact) was not dissecated and momified for ever. It was adopted, adapted, mixed, improved, changed, and even beautified by inmigrants, influenced by local customs, by successors married to local inhabitants, by new conditions, by new ears and public etc etc.

It is very interesting to say that "in the practical usage of that music, microtones are being used and it seems there's no clear foundation
intact to the classical theory."
It is most assumed that the Noubas have no 1/4 tons, however, there might be some microtonal nuances.

Anyhow, this is a complete and fascinating world, and the study of this classical north african music throw lights on present modern styles like moroccan chaabi and algerian rai, among other styles (there are so many different musics in north africa; it is incredible)

Just again pls visit this site http://yafil.free.fr, with lot of infos on algerian çana3a.

Rambaldi47 - 12-16-2006 at 11:02 AM

Tanks very much, Zalal for enlighten me.
it was not an info I carved in from my brain cells
from the few bits and pieces my vocal teacher did pass on to us
(though that part about the mawal, nauba and exact name is among that precious info I carry with me :-) ].
I was merely summing up what I had found in that site,
an article which based its sources on a Ph.d (among others) written
by the one of the founders and previous conducter of the Andalusian
Orchestra, one which he had published in 1986 under the title:
Chapters in the Moroccan Jews Music

it's possible I had left important information written in there (one comes to mind about the nauba NOT being like a maqam but a complete music structure with different sections and rhythm inside as you so elegantly put it). I agree with you about being cautious regarding the story of Zyriab.
even on a scale of masterminds as Da Vinci and his astonishing Innovations and Mozart in
Music Composure seems unattainable. It might just be that he had laid the
foundations for generations to come to develop and expand to what is now
had formed to this utterly wonderful style of music.
That part about the origins of each style ultimately scattered around the
North African Region do seems a bit like a careless assumption.

I was not aware of the way this music was written in the form of Notation.
As I recall, my teacher told us the music was taught be ear and there was
no clear "textbook" if you will, as to how the notes each corresponds to
form a certain nauba. It was only later that the music was transcribed
to notes and I guess it's true that you can hear (i.e. in the taqsim
in middle of that song) some notes which can be heard on traditional arabic
music.

I wanted to thank you for that website (would have to work with a friend
on the French translating as I do know few words but not enough to read it all by myself...couldn't find some pages in English there)...informative
and so many transcriptions and midi files for some pieces I've learnt.
will sure come handy when I will begin my studies on the oud,
but it appears though as if this year will not be it as well.
This pre-academic program I'm taking proving to be such time consuming
I barely time for myself...perhaps next year :-)

Happy Holidays :xtreme:

amine2 - 12-17-2006 at 03:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zalzalI think Zyriab, the blackbird,
hi every body,
ziriab wasn't a genius as we think, he didn't invent the fifth cord, oud with five cords exists in iraq many years before he cames to andaluss.
and in morocco and tunisia, we can find nowadays some ouds with fore cords.
i think that in andaluss in the area of ziriab; there was two types of ouds .
and i don't think that zyriab has composed all the noubas of andalusian music, i think that we made of ziriab a mythe, a god tout simplement, because in history we need some symbols like that. mayb i am making a mistake...we can't know
blackbird is the surname of miles davis too.;)

amine2 - 12-17-2006 at 03:54 AM

for zalzal, i agree with you.
in morocco, most of people that comes from andaluss are from granada, here is a neighbourhhod in old medina of fes, called al andaluss, very known in the past for his imigrants from granada.