Mike's Oud Forums

The "Lingua Franca" of these forums

Greg - 1-2-2007 at 02:26 AM

There are over 1,000 members of these forums and their primary languages include Arabic, Hebrew, Greek, Italian, French, English, German, Hungarian, Turkish, Farsi, Spanish (and many more).
Even though many members have difficulty in communicating in English, most make the attempt, as English is the one common language that most have some capabilities with.

I, for one, would appreciate it if all members of the forums would make an attempt to write in English, so that the great majority of the list members have an opportunity to participate in EVERY thread (inclusivity).

Respectfully,

Greg

amtaha - 1-3-2007 at 05:51 AM

Perhaps this should be a sticky or permanently noted somewhere. Could it be that the time has come to establish a F.A.Q. for the forum?

May I also suggest a "modus operandi"? - Celebrate good times, C'mon! :-)

Best regards,
Hamid

p.s. Shouldn't there be a celebration of some sort that forum passed the 1000 members mark?

jdowning - 1-4-2007 at 07:13 AM

I have the greatest admiration for those who make the effort to communicate in a written language that is not their mother tongue - especially those with only a limited knowledge of the other language.
I do not disagree with a policy that specifies English as the common language of communication for the forum as being the practical way to proceed.
The English language is flexible enough to be understood even when unintentionally badly written, however, it is possible to deliberately write in an 'exclusive' manner making understanding generally more difficult or confusing than it needs to be. So at one extreme there are those who will use many words that are of obscure meaning or otherwise no longer in common daily use and at the other extreme there is now the use of written shorthand presumably developed by cell phone users - for example 'u' meaning 'you' and 'thx' meaning thanks etc.
Avoiding such bad practices and encouraging the writing of plain and simple everyday language at all times should also be an objective?

What a wonderfully diverse and successful forum this is.

Time - 1-4-2007 at 01:55 PM

When I see a language that I don't read I would copy the text to Babel fish translation. So to me I have to do this for every post, but it will be nice if that person does it for us.

What is written in your language of preference can be translated after. This will also develop their English. Also you can include the original text to allow us to read both languages.

On the other hand if it was not English I think a lot of the members will not bother reading it. So if you target all the members with your post then English should be the language.

Just suggestions...

this is the link to the translator

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

jdowning - 1-4-2007 at 02:55 PM

I like the idea of "mechanical translation" but have yet to find a free version that works reliably - particularly if the text is of a technical nature as much of the oud forum is.
I have just tested a German to English translation of a text about the history of the mouth organ using 'babelfish' and the results are rather poor to the point of being mostly incomprehensible.
I have heard that some more advanced (and costly) mechanical translation software does work to the point where it is used and trusted by military organisations.
Does anyone have any recommendations as to the best translation software available - either free or at any price? If so, this might be a useful service facilty to add to the forum website - if that is a possibility?

palestine48 - 1-4-2007 at 08:35 PM

I beleive the constraint is a limitation of time to spend typing what they want in a language they are not well versed in and the frustration that proceeds with it.

While I agree that the forums should be all inclusive, I hope not to alienate those who feel there will be a language barrier set up with the rest of the board.

I think possible solutions are

1. As Greg, mentioned. encourage english usagae as much as possible and by that the rest of the english speaking forum members should be very proactice in assisting with corrections and typing, but only in a supportive way of course.

2. If the person who can not speak english well does no have time to type in english, the rest of the forum should not be shy to ask for a translation from anyone who can lend a hand, if someone asks for it. it should not be an obligation but rather an assistance to someone who seeks it.

3. As a "social Network" and "community" we should always be assisting each other to benefit the group.

4. I also agree with jdowning, the use of short hand should be discouraged in order for those people who want to use the forums as an english method the ability to learn to properly type. i am a culprit of shorthand but very willing to give it up if it is helpful.

here is another long shot possibility

5. Maybe we can designate official human translators on the board to those who would like to volunteer, kind of like language moderators?

Benjamin - 1-5-2007 at 03:10 AM

Palestine 48, you have been designed as the official human translator on the board

In my bad english

Microber - 1-5-2007 at 03:18 AM

Well, the "lingua franca"don't say a word...
A lot of things I agree with in this thread.

I have already suggested to the french speakers to write bilingual french AND english. Even badly written.

Some posts are sometime to difficult to understand for me. I know what it's talking about, but not the nuances. And the nuances are often important.
Using a simple english would help.
Writing take more time also because of the nuances.
Sometime I give up writing.

Time, I also use Babelfish, but only as a dictionary, for a few words I don't know. But I don't think it work well for a whole text.

The idea of a language moderator is very good.

Robert

En français

Microber - 1-5-2007 at 03:19 AM

Eh bien, les "lingua franca" ne disent pas un mot.
Beaucoup de choses avec lesquelles je suis d'accord dans ce thread.

J'ai déjà suggéré aux francophones d'écrire en bilingue français ET anglais. Même si c'est mal écrit.

Certains posts sont parfois trop difficiles à comprendre pour moi. Je sais de quoi on parle, mais je ne comprends pas bien les nuances. Et les nuances sont parfois très importantes. Utiliser un langage simple pourrait aider.
Ecrire prend beaucoup plus de temps aussi à cause des nuances.
Parfois, je renonce à écrire.

Time, j'utilise aussi Babelfish, mais en tant que dictionnaire pour quelques mots que je ne connais pas. Mais je crois que ça ne marche pas très bien pour tout un texte.

L'idée d'un modérateur linguistique est très bonne.

Robert

My french transated by babelfish

Microber - 1-5-2007 at 03:23 AM

THIS IS THE AUTOMATIC TRANSLATION OF MY FRENCH POST.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF RESULT ?

Robert


Eh well, the "lingua franca" do not say a word.
Many things with which I agree in this thread.

I already suggested with the French-speaking people writing as bilingual French AND English. Even if it is badly written.

Some posts are sometimes too difficult to include/understand for me. I know what one speaks, but I do not understand the nuances well. And the nuances are sometimes very important. To use a simple language could help.
To write also takes much more time because of the nuances. Sometimes, I give up writing.

Time, I use also Babelfish, but as a dictionary for some words which I do not know. But I believe that that does not go very well for a whole text.

The idea of a linguistic regulator is very good.

Greg - 1-5-2007 at 05:10 AM

Robert,

Your example of Babelfish produced quite acceptable results:

Here's one that I put through:

tu n'as insulté personne ziad?
c'est toi quia ecrit "tu as un coté futile ridicule amine"... et tu trouves que j'ecrivais "autant d'anneries"...ou peut être il y a deux membres dans ce forum avec le même pseudo.!.??? ne me dis pas que c'était des compliments.
en plus de ça, est ce que moi j'ai cité ton nom?
n'ai pas peur de ce que tu dis et assume le. l'artiste doit être courageux et ne reviens jamais sur ses idées. sauf que le vrai artiste sait quand et comment intervenir...
ne recommence pas la prochaine fois.
p.s: je suis d'accord sur le fait que c'est une discussion inutile.

The result:

you did not insult anybody ziad? it is you quia ecrit "you dimensioned futile a ridiculous amine"... and you find that I ecrivais "as many anneries"... or can be there are two members in this forum with the very pseudo one!.??? do not say to me that they was compliments. in more of is that, what me I quoted your name? am not afraid of what you say and assumes the artist must be courageous and never reconsider its ideas. except that the true artist knows when and how to intervene... does not start again the next time. p.s: I agree on the fact that it is an useless discussion.

jdowning - 1-5-2007 at 07:34 AM

Here is another example of a French to English translation by Babelfish. It is a brief extract taken from the massive theoretical work 'Harmonie Universelle" by Marin Mersenne published in Paris in 1636. I input the text in French for translation to English - copying Mersenne's 17th C spelling which is partly phonetic (as is written English of the period). This is a bit of an unfair test as it is not a modern text but does illustrate some of the difficulties associated with machine translations - which can only be as good (or bad) as the grammatical parameters and vocabulary provided by the programmers of the software.

I am not fluent in French but take Mersenne to be saying .... "and that the sound of the largest (diameter) strings of a lute are perceived by the ear to last for the sixth part or a third of a minute, that is to say while the pulse of a relaxed, healthy man beats ten or twenty times: ...."
This is a very important historical piece of information about early 17th C lute strings - not to mention the health of 17th C Parisian men - that would be difficult if not impossible to interpret from the machine translation alone in my opinion.

I imagine that accurate machine translation is a difficult thing to achieve because of the complexity and subtlety of languages so no doubt good software - if it exists - is likely to be costly and is likely to be restricted in scope to only one or two languages? Also as input of text is a time consuming chore, accurate scanning technology (Optical Character Recognition) would also be desirable.

The proposal to write in English together with a translation in whatever language a forum contributor is comfortable with is a sensible and practical one. After all, one objective of the forum should be clear communication between members. Not always an easy thing to achieve with a large multilingual community which is why I think that this thread is quite important.
Furthermore, in all of this we should not overlook the power of the image to clearly and quickly communicate information without the need for words (or very few of them).

Microber - 1-5-2007 at 08:40 AM

Greg,
Most of the mistakes in your test come from the bad spelling in the french text.
For example :
1. "quia" must be written in two words "qui as"
2. "ecrit" is normally "écrit"
3. "ecrivais" is "écrivais"
4. "anneries" is "âneries"

and you, Jdowning, the mistakes come from the fact of an old language. Your human translation is very correct.
The same text in modern french should be :
"... et que le son des grosses cordes de luth est perçu par l'oreille durant la sixième partie ou le tiers d'une minute, c'est-à-dire pendant que le pouls d'un homme sain et sans émotion bat dix ou vingt fois"

The babelfish translation is then :
"... and that the sound of the large cords of lute is perceived by the ear during the sixth part, or the one minute old third, i.e. while the pulse of a healthy man and without emotion beats ten or twenty times "

Greg, the babelfish translation of your french text with correct spelling is :
"it is you which wrote "you have a ridiculous side futile, amine"... and you find that I wrote as many stupid things."

The conclusion is that babelfish is able to make an acceptable translation if the orthography is correct in the original text.



Robert

SamirCanada - 1-5-2007 at 09:26 AM

to me if the proper grammar is used in the original text then it looks like it does a wonderfull job concidering...
my 2c

Time - 1-5-2007 at 10:51 AM

It is nearly impossible for some sentences to be translated accurately from language to language even by humans. In this forum most of the users are using simple English which makes it simpler to translate. Correcting the translation can be done before the post by the user. This will allow the user to see his text that he wrote in his preferred language then translated to a language he is willing to learn. This allows great understanding of how sentences are constructed in the translation text.

Using the original text as well as the translated text can make a great help for people of both languages. This will get the point through.



In French: I don't even know a word below. here I am using a real example.


Il est impossible presque pour que quelques phrases soient traduites exactement de la langue à la langue même par des humains. Dans ce forum la plupart des utilisateurs emploient l'anglais simple qui des marques il plus simple pour traduire. Corriger la traduction peut être fait avant le poteau par l'utilisateur. Ceci permettra à l'utilisateur de voir son texte qu'il a écrit en sa langue préférée alors traduite à une langue qu'il est disposé à apprendre. Ceci permet le grand arrangement de la façon dont des phrases sont construites dans le texte de traduction. Employer le texte original aussi bien que le texte traduit peut faire une grande aide pour des personnes des deux langues. Ceci obtiendra le point à travers.

jdowning - 1-5-2007 at 01:16 PM

Well, if Babelfish works for some of you most of the time then go for it! Just beware of the fact that it is limited in the extent and deployment of its vocabulary base so that the results, while they can sometimes be quite amusing, may not be very helpful or even confusing to those with little knowledge of the second language. For example, running a test translation of an up to date instrument museum catalogue from Paris, "la rose" meaning a guitar soundhole is translated as "the pink", "Fond" meaning the back of a guitar is translated as "melts", "Les Chevilles" meaning guitar pegs becomes "ankles", "le fil n'en est pas droit" referring to the lack of straightness of the wood grain in a guitar back becomes "the wire is not right" - and so on.

Obviously input of the text to be translated also needs to be correct in every respect. Typographical errors in the original text that may not be obvious to to the person inputting the text might cause problems. Also, both French and German should be dependant upon the proper use of accents for accurate interpretation and translation - so presumably French and German computer keyboards are essential for input?

Don't get me wrong - I am very interested in the potential of mechanical translation software - but will have to look further than a free, manually input version of Babelfish before I become a believer.

Time - 1-5-2007 at 10:43 PM

Jdowning, you have raised an important issue some people might not be aware off. The error in the translations is possible and should be consider.

amine2 - 1-6-2007 at 04:46 AM

allez vous branler les mecs.
c'est quoi ce probléme? une perte de temps tout court.

ALAMI - 1-6-2007 at 05:20 AM

:))
Hahahaha
I translated amine post using the babel thing machin and it returned a hilarious translation:

"shake the guys it is what this probléme? a very short waste of time."

amine may have a point it is not really reliable for serious translation but it could be a nice tool to generate a joke or may be to write a "Burlesque" novel.
The problem needs more R&D, may be assigning a volunteer -human- translator of the day . so let's "Shake the guys"

Microber - 1-6-2007 at 05:29 AM

Burlesque.
The word fit very well for his Majesty Amine 2.

Alami, what does mean 'R&D' ?

Robert

zalzal - 1-6-2007 at 05:41 AM

recherche et developpement non??
rehearsal & developement ???

This babelfish thing does it translate also the arabic??

(What Amine is telling us is to go and clearly practise the individual and cerebral auto-onanism, same as we are doing in this thread which is a wasting of our time. I try to translate his opinion).

ALAMI - 1-6-2007 at 05:45 AM

usually it means : research and development

But in the case of the major clash of cicvilisations happening on this topic it could be "Read and dismiss"

Türkçe

eliot - 1-6-2007 at 06:41 AM

I would say that for the primary-language-is-Turkish speakers on this board (exceptions: Faruk Tarunz and others who are comfortable with English), I would hope that they would write both in Turkish and English when possible. Translation between these two languages is incredibly difficult and often much is lost. My Turkish is not perfect, but often I can understand more from the Turkish post than from a broken translation, and we don't have a tool nearly as accurate as babelfish for these duties.

Keske Türkçe konusanlar hem Türkçe hem de Ingilizce yazacaklar. Genellikle çeviri yaparken anlama kaybolmaktadir. Babelfish gibi bir gerçek çeviri yapan sey olmadigini göre, tam Türkçe bilmedigime ragmen, Türkçedeki yazdigi seyler daha rahat anlayabilirim.


Also, forum techies, wondering why you can't have the default language encoding for the forum in unicode: currently, you are using
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" />

But if you used unicode, we could write in Turkish and everyone couuld read it....

Teşşekur Ederim!

jdowning - 1-6-2007 at 08:51 AM

Having just done a quick Google search on the Web for "Free Translation" services I was surprised to find quite a number available. Some look as though they may be a bit easier to input accurately than Babel Fish as they provide on screen accent keys and do not, therefore, require a separate keyboard setup. I am, therefore, interested enough in the possibilities to do a bit more - dare I say it - Research, by trying out a few of them.
These systems seem to cover most of the European languages including Russian as well as 'global' languages such as Arabic, Chinese, Japanese. I have not come across a Turkish translation sytem so far but will keep looking.

Question - why on earth would anyone who considers this topic to be a waste of time then proceed to waste their time in participating?!!

jdowning - 1-6-2007 at 10:19 AM

...... however, if you have some time to spare and have a sense of humour, here is a very amusing site 'Lost in Translation' where the author Carl Tashian sets out to let you see what happens to an English text after a series of successive translations in several languages He uses Babel Fish for the machine translations.

You have been warned!!

http://www.tashian.com/multibabel

mourad_X - 1-6-2007 at 11:11 AM

na ja

es ist halt typisch für franzosen das sie nur in ihrer ach so total tollen sprache
komunizieren wollen ;)

des is halt scho was b'sonderes :))

amtaha - 1-6-2007 at 06:49 PM

This discussion is far from needlees and is important. What is being aimed at by Greg's note is to maximize the benefit of each thread as much as possible. This is not a waste of time, nor it is a pointless exercise of debate.

Granted that not each thread is useful for every member - not even for every third or tenth member, but if there's something noteworthy and useful that is being discussed or described in Spanish or French or Turkish, then wouldn't it be real nice that more members would be involved. And I intentionally use "involved" because there's always the possibility that someone who doesn't know the language who might chip in with an answer.

But beyond all this, the note - made by a moderator, mind you - was an invitation or a suggestion. And beyond this, still, and moderator or not, respect must be maintained.

Regards,
Hamid

amine2 - 1-7-2007 at 01:20 AM

:))

jdowning - 1-9-2007 at 10:07 AM

Just for information for those interested in the possibilities of machine translation. There are a great number of free translation services available on the Internet so it would take a considerable amount of time to try them all out - although they may all be using just a few of the available technolgies currently under development.
One that seems to have more promise than Babel Fish in my opinion is ImTranslator 3.0 available as a free plug-in for either Internet Explorer or Mozilla Firefox. It comes with a number of useful facilities to ease input of text, spell check, switch between translations etc and also includes a full range of virtual keyboards for accurate text input - including Arabic and Turkish. This free version does not have translation capabilities for Turkish but it does for Arabic - English - Arabic. ImTranslator uses PROMPT technology which may be more accurate than Babel Fish - although I would need to test that in greater depth and remain open minded either way.
For example testing with the simple sentence "The caterpillar crawled over the leaf." from English to French and then retranslating the result back from French to English in order to verify the translation I get "The caterpillar crawled on the leaf"- very good. The same test for English to German to English gives "The caterpillar crept about the sheet"- not bad if you understand the alternatives in the vocabulary for "leaf". For English to Arabic to English the result is "Creeping on caterpillar in the paper" which does not mean much as written but at least the vocabulary is as close as the German version. However, before anyone laughs, try going through the same translation process using Babel Fish and see what you get!!
The developers of the machine translation software do not recommend this double translation process but how else is it possible to be sure if a machine translation is correct if one has limited or no knowledge of the second language?
I have no knowledge of Arabic or how the language is structured so do not understand why the above 'return' translation should be in an apparently inverted form. I would, therefore, be interested to know from someone fluent in Arabic if the translation of the sentence from English to Arabic, using ImTranslator, is true to the original.

David Parfitt - 1-10-2007 at 12:18 AM

The problem here seems to be Amine in his various incarnations. He has done nothing but insult people since he appeared on this forum, and most of us seemed to be perfectly happy using English on here until he showed up.

David

amine2 - 1-10-2007 at 02:50 AM

too stupid:D
your problem is yourself.
ce n'est pas de ma faute s'il y a des gens aussi cons sur terre:(

Translation courtesy of ImTranslator & moderator Greg:
"It is not of my error if there are such bloody stupid people on earth."

zalzal - 1-10-2007 at 02:27 PM

Some vocabulary to learn "oudenglish", make oud not war !!!


The Nut – Starts the vibrating point of the strings

The Bridge – Ends the vibrating point of the strings

End Pin – Where tail piece gut is attached

Tail Piece – Item where strings attach after moving over the bridge – not a feature on all luthier instruments – common on instruments of the fyddle family.

Finger Board – A platform designed for fingers to touch strings and support for production of notes on the musical instrument.

Peg box – The place where the tuning pegs are found attaching the strings to the tuning area of the instrument.

Tuning Pegs – Features designed to allow the tensioning of strings so that the proper pitch may be obtained.

The Table – The sound board, the top of the instrument – usually pierced with sound holes of some kind.

The Ribs – The side walls of an instrument.

The Back – The back of an instrument.

The Neck – The area between the back and the pegbox – supports the finger board.

http://www.jubilatores.com/luthier.html

Greg - 1-10-2007 at 09:13 PM

You will see that I used "ImTranslator" (thanks jdowning) to provide a rough French to English translation of part of Amine2's last post on this thread.
If members find this useful, I will do these translations on any future posts, where the poster does not provide an English translation (and where the translation is possible using the ImTranslator service.

Regards,

Greg

zalzal - 1-10-2007 at 11:16 PM

I used imtranslator to translate above vocabulary and i am still laughing....

Anyhow, if anybody knows the exact technical translation i would appreciate.

La Noix – Commence le point vibrant des ficelles

Le Pont – Met fin au point vibrant des ficelles

L'Épingle de Fin – Où l'intestin de morceau de queue est attaché

Le Morceau de Queue – l'Article où les ficelles font partie après le fait de se serrer le pont – pas une caractéristique sur tous les instruments luthier – commun sur les instruments de la famille fyddle.

Le Conseil de Doigt – une plate-forme conçue aux doigts pour toucher les ficelles et le soutien en faveur de la production de notes sur l'instrument de musique.

La boîte de patère – l'endroit où les patères s'accordant sont trouvées en attachant les ficelles à la région s'accordant de l'instrument.

Le fait d'Accorder Cheville – les Caractéristiques ont été destinées à permettre le tensioning de ficelles pour que le terrain nécessaire puisse être obtenu.

La Table – la caisse du violon, le haut de l'instrument – d'habitude percé avec les trous solides d'une sorte.

Les Côtes – les murs de côté d'un instrument.

Le Revers – le revers d'un instrument.

Le Cou – la région entre le revers et le pegbox – soutient le conseil de doigt.

David Parfitt - 1-11-2007 at 12:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Greg
You will see that I used "ImTranslator" (thanks jdowning) to provide a rough French to English translation of part of Amine2's last post on this thread.
If members find this useful, I will do these translations on any future posts, where the poster does not provide an English translation (and where the translation is possible using the ImTranslator service.

Regards,

Greg


Greg,

Thanks for that tranlation of Amine's words, but I really don't think it does justice to the richness and subtlety of the French language. :D

Best wishes

David

jdowning - 1-11-2007 at 06:49 AM

Looks as though some free machine translation software still has a very long way to go before it can be depended upon for technical translation without need for editing and correction.
I spoke to a person the other day who has experience in using one of the professional versions of machine translation software available on the market - to translate from English to Spanish. He reported that, generally, the results were quite good and saved a lot of time in the translation process nevertheless the translation had to be checked and corrected paragraph by paragraph by a person fully fluent in Spanish before it could be used for business communications.

Microber - 1-11-2007 at 07:41 AM

Here are the french equivalent I've found for the different parts of the oud.

The Nut – le sillet

The Bridge – le chevalet

End Pin – ?

Tail Piece (only on Bachir style oud) – le cordier

Finger Board – la touche

Peg box – la tête

Tuning Pegs – les clés ou les mécaniques

The Table – The sound board - la table d'hamonie

The Ribs – l'éclisse

Sound hole - la rosace

The Neck – le manche

The bowl - la caisse de résonance

If anybody know other words, welcome.

Robert

zalzal - 1-11-2007 at 11:35 AM

Muchas Gracias

amine2 - 1-11-2007 at 11:51 AM

for mr david , i'll say you're stupid.;)
good english.no?

excentrik - 1-12-2007 at 12:50 AM

Mr. Amine. My Brother. Dude, yer acting like a child man. we dont need any name calling and negativity around here.

I dont really have an opinion about all this- as far as I'M concerned (and this is not intended to be an assertion of any type) I wouldn't care if we spoke English, Arabic, or Spanish because I'll understand it all- you (Amine) seem to understand English enough to call someone stupid, vous pourriez aussi bien écrire en anglais ici. good french. no?

tarik

ImTranslation:
you could write as well in English here.

amine2 - 1-12-2007 at 02:23 AM

:applause:very good french

David Parfitt - 1-12-2007 at 02:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by amine2
for mr david , i'll say you're stupid.;)
good english.no?


In looking for a suitable response to this, I find myself once again seeking inspiration from the legendary Mr T, whose words somehow transcend all barriers of language and culture:

"Quit your jibber-jabber, fool!"


amine2 - 1-12-2007 at 03:09 AM

do you work in a circus david?:))

David Parfitt - 1-12-2007 at 03:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by amine2
do you work in a circus david?:))


No, but I'm used to dealing with clowns. :D

amine2 - 1-12-2007 at 06:11 AM

"l'art du clown va bien au-delà de ce que l'on pense"
André Suarès.

ImTranslation:
" the art of the buffoon goes well beyond that they think "
André Suarès

zalzal - 1-12-2007 at 11:10 AM

oud & clown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpN-fhKYmNI

jdowning - 1-13-2007 at 04:48 PM

On the morning TV breakfast show yesterday it was announced (I am not making this up!) that fluency in two or more languages helps to prevent the onset of dementia - apparently due to stimulation of the brain caused by constant juggling between translations - according to "the experts". Little hope for me then!
However, this may just be government propaganda in a country with two "official" languages and obsessed with bilingualism issues? After all there are many other equally interesting and challenging ways to exercise the mind other than expertise in languages.

excentrik - 1-16-2007 at 05:29 PM

ya amine2...

khalas ya zelemeh! (arabic)

Translation: Quit it, man!

-Tarik