Mike's Oud Forums

Left-handed oud player

libanais - 1-8-2007 at 11:51 AM

Hi all - my friend is a guitar player and I would like to encourage him to play oud by buying him one as a gift. But I have two questions:
1. He is left-handed. Can the oud strings be switched (reverse order) so he can play? If so, does this significantly affect the sound?
2. I'm guessing most instruction books, DVDs, etc. are for right-handed players. Anyone know of materials for left-handed?

Thanks for any help.

Beas.One - 1-8-2007 at 09:40 PM

I know of the program, OudTutor which shows finger instruction for right and left handed players. It also highlights notes as they are played on a midi file which is helpful for learning.

Sol - 1-8-2007 at 09:56 PM

I've asked my teacher, and he's said he can either just attempt to learn to play like a right handed player and strengthen his right hand or, if that doesn't take, he can just flip the Oud and learn to play that way.

If he is going to learn from a teacher, I'm sure they could adapt their teaching to fit left- handed players.

SamirCanada - 1-8-2007 at 10:05 PM

there are makers that make ouds for left handed players. Shehata does it but Iam sure others that do custom work will do it too. What a left handed oud implies is that the bracing has been done in a proper way to ensure the right sound for the string under it. the middle strings stay the same so its just at the extremities that there is a problem in not achieving the maximum sound.
That is what has been said. Although I am doubtfull it would have that much impact on sound since I think the braces are usualy made in a symetrical way unless Iam mistaken.

The really enoying thing about playing left handed on a right handed instrument is the presence of the first peg being too close and in the way of the hand when you want to play close to the nut. I play right handed but for some reason the oud I begined with was for left handed and it bugged me beyond belief since I would knock it and the tuning would be messed up in the middle of playing so my attention was more towards not knocking the peg rather then on the playing. wich explains why I play so poorly.

Still... all and all. its not worth your time and effort to find a left handed oud to begin with and your not sure if you'll stick with oud. But if you want a professional instrument you intend to keep get it from a maker directly

Microber - 1-9-2007 at 12:05 AM

For almost 35 years, I have wondered why a left-handed person must play in the other way.
For other instruments, the left-handed play like the right-handed : piano, flute... Moreover, I do not have the impression that to play the oud (or the guitar), the right hand must be nimbler than the left hand.
My daughter (10) is beginning to play guitar. She is lefty.
Her teacher says she must play as a right-handed.
And the guitar seller says absolutely not, she must play left.
Are there some left-handed oudists who play as a right-handed ?

Robert

farukturunz - 1-9-2007 at 03:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SamirCanadaWhat a left handed oud implies is that the bracing has been done in a proper way to ensure the right sound for the string under it. the middle strings stay the same so its just at the extremities that there is a problem in not achieving the maximum sound.
That is what has been said. Although I am doubtfull it would have that much impact on sound since I think the braces are usualy made in a symetrical way unless Iam mistaken.


I agree with the statement dealing with the discomfort caused by the peg that touches the right hand when playing at the first position but do not agree with the thought concerning the symmetrical braces and symmetrical positioning of them. The true and logical way is to make them irregular (not symmetric) in shape and to locate them in an irregular positioning.

farukturunz - 1-9-2007 at 03:53 AM

SamirCanada - 1-9-2007 at 06:13 AM

Thank you Ustaz Faruk.

I always heard of assymetrical braces... but now that I see I believe it.
Although... Do you agree with me that its a feature that is probably only found in professional grade instruments in general?

farukturunz - 1-9-2007 at 08:37 AM

Yes, I agree that this kind of bracing is not so common and only some makers who construct professional instruments apply. Manol used to make his ouds' braces in that way.

Hosam - 1-9-2007 at 09:40 AM

How about the top plate thickness? is it the same thickness or it is thinned a little bit more on one side of the oud? My understanding is that the function of the asymmetrical braces is to compensate and balance the lower frequencies for the bass side and the treble side. Another question is the soundboard thinned more at the edges?

farukturunz - 1-9-2007 at 01:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hosam
How about the top plate thickness? is it the same thickness or it is thinned a little bit more on one side of the oud? My understanding is that the function of the asymmetrical braces is to compensate and balance the lower frequencies for the bass side and the treble side. Another question is the soundboard thinned more at the edges?


You are right Hosam. The lower frequency side is thinned a bit more like you mention.

Dr. Oud - 1-9-2007 at 02:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by farukturunz
Yes, I agree that this kind of bracing is not so common and only some makers who construct professional instruments apply. Manol used to make his ouds' braces in that way.
I have never seen an Arabic oud with assymetrical bracing, including Nahats, Gamil George, Najarian, and many others. I wouldn't consider an oud maker unprofessional just because he doesn't follow the Manol design.

farukturunz - 1-10-2007 at 11:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Oud I wouldn't consider an oud maker unprofessional just because he doesn't follow the Manol design.


Neither would I, Dr.
Of course, I want to believe in that your intention is not to arrogate any thing in the opposite way.

Jameel - 1-10-2007 at 11:51 AM

Very interesting pics, Faruk! Thanks for posting them. For me, bracing and soundboard fabrication is the heart of the oud's construction, and the more I can learn the better.

Talking about assymetrical bracing for Arabic ouds, I'm attaching a pic from a good friend of mine who also happens to be a world class guitar maker, Michael Cone. This is an Abdo Nahat he owns. The braces look quite similar in arrangement to your arragement above.



I haven't seen very many soundboards from the inside, but I tried experimenting with assymetrical (mainly along the height of the brace) bracing on my last oud (see pic). I'm thinking more about trying to build with non-parallel (as in your pic above) assymetrical bracing on upcoming instruments.

zalzal - 1-10-2007 at 12:12 PM

Jameel, what wood is it??

Must the bracings be the same wood of the sound board allways ?

Bracing is said to sustains the soundboard and above all to give a peculiar sound to the oud. But why??.
How do you explain in undertsandable words for ignorants the organics dancing of frequencies with bracings inside the "guts" of an oud ??

Another silly question, how changes the sound the one, or three rosettes, the empty or filled rosette ??

zalzal - 1-10-2007 at 12:28 PM

Can this very assymetrical lute bracing pattern be applied on an oud ?javascript :email()
Insert E-mail Hyperlink17th C lute by Christofolo Choc

Jdwning attached this picture in a previous post.

Jameel - 1-11-2007 at 06:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zalzal
Jameel, what wood is it??

Must the bracings be the same wood of the sound board allways ?

Bracing is said to sustains the soundboard and above all to give a peculiar sound to the oud. But why??.
How do you explain in undertsandable words for ignorants the organics dancing of frequencies with bracings inside the "guts" of an oud ??

Another silly question, how changes the sound the one, or three rosettes, the empty or filled rosette ??


The face here is western red cedar and nomex. The braces are spruce. The braces dont have to be the same wood, but some say its a good idea to use the same wood, maybe even from the same tree. Maybe Faruk can help us here.

Here is how I understand bracing. The more bracing you have (theoretically, completely covering the back of the soundboard or none at all) the less the top will vibrate, so less sound volume, richness, sustain, character, balance. If you had no braces, the top would simply collapse. So I think the goal is to find the sweet spot between the two. Enough bracing to support the face, and built in a manner that allows the face to express all those charcteristics. Different makers use different methods that work, successfully, and impart their own flavor to the sound by each being a bit different. And everyone has his own personal taste, so in the end it's great in a way that the oud doesn't have a strict method of bracing like for example a guitar, otherwise we might lose variety. Make sense? If you want a scientific answer, Faruk is the man. I'm no scientist!

zalzal - 1-11-2007 at 09:25 AM

Totally make sense, now i understood. Thank you

Jason - 1-12-2007 at 12:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Microber
For almost 35 years, I have wondered why a left-handed person must play in the other way.
For other instruments, the left-handed play like the right-handed : piano, flute... Moreover, I do not have the impression that to play the oud (or the guitar), the right hand must be nimbler than the left hand.
My daughter (10) is beginning to play guitar. She is lefty.
Her teacher says she must play as a right-handed.
And the guitar seller says absolutely not, she must play left.
Are there some left-handed oudists who play as a right-handed ?

Robert


There is a school of thought that says, since playing a musical instrument is an entirely new experience for your body, it really doesn't matter if you are predominately right or left handed. Both hands require immense amounts of dexterity and precision and when starting from scratch it probably doesn't matter which hand you use for what. I know a lot of people that will argue up and down about this subject but it's hard to say anything definitive unless you've never played an instrument before and suddenly pick one up.

farukturunz - 1-12-2007 at 04:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jameel I'm thinking more about trying to build with non-parallel (as in your pic above) assymetrical bracing on upcoming instruments.


Take it easy my friend.
I am making and locating the braces in an irregular way (not symmetrical); because the oud's strings are not symmetrical. If they were symmetrical (in terms of their physical features) in relation to the centermost string then I would not need to do it asymmetrically.:)