We finished another great new
generation Oud for one of our customers in Japan, he asked us to make a custom Oud for him, Iraqi style, Moving bridge, finished soundboard,
pellisander fingerboard / pegs, and name in Arabic on pick's guard, also currently we're making another new generation custom Oud in
Egyptian style for another customer in USA, and I will post its pictures when it's finished, but now I would like to hear any opinion about this
Oud.
Wood
rivo - 2-12-2004 at 11:27 PM
Hi again,
I just forgot to say that this Oud is made from walnut wood.Ronny Andersson - 2-15-2004 at 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rivo
Hi again,
I just forgot to say that this Oud is made from walnut wood.
What is the basic price for this oud?
Best wishes
Price
rivo - 2-15-2004 at 09:24 PM
Hi Ronny,
basic price of this Oud is $650US, and if you want ebony fingerboard and pegs $80US will be added.
Regardsnadir - 2-16-2004 at 07:49 AM
how is this considered a new generation oud?rivo - 2-16-2004 at 09:52 AM
Hi Nadir,
Well actually there are many things to say to answer your question, but I will try to give you the right short answer, first of all the Oud is having
the standard dimensions that should have, but last few years we made many experiments trying to improve Ouds sound and we succeeded to reach to
something different than other competitors, we studied many parameters to develop and improve Oud sound and there are some facts we had which are.
Bowel of Oud must be sealed not to let sound escape away, and to reflect all sound to fingerboard
Fingerboard thickness must be optimized to have the highest right pure sound without any distortion.
Natural robes of wood is a very important parameter that affect the sound, and it's working just like human throat robes
There are also some other parameters we consider in building our Ouds like type of wood, direction of cutting the wood, and way of finishing, and we
choose Shahata's workshop to make this with us because Maurice is the only educated Oud maker and he is listening to anyone with open mind, also
because Shahata's workshop own a very skilled craftsmen and having a good reputation.
Finally I didn't mention everything here but I hope i could give you an Idea about the new generation Ouds.
Regardsjourneyman - 2-16-2004 at 11:46 PM
This Bashir style oud looks beautiful. It would be great if you could post a sound clip of someone playing it.
Cheers,
Royspyros mesogeia - 2-17-2004 at 05:08 AM
Dear friend Raafat,
All the principles that you have mention are respected from all the good oudmakers,I am talking about the ribs of the wood and the direction of
cuting,even so,as for the combination that you have done about the throat,I can't understand it,even If my job is to be a doctor...
As you probably know the bowl has 20-30 % of the affection to the sound.....you know,great oudmakers,as Manol and Nahat,as far as I know they
didn't use polyester at these times,because it wasn't......What do you mean by saying ''we have the standard dimensions that
should have''?can you please be more specific?And for the what have you reached,have you ever see work of others oudmakers,and with ho did
you compare your ouds please?
First of all maybe there is a misunderstanding,the sound does not reflect to the fingerboard that much [only 10 maybe less],but on the
soundboard....Front side of the oud....
Also,with the great art of Phisics and mathematics I personally and many others we believe that if the fingerboard is smooth,sleek,and corectly on
grades puted with the hight of the bridge,and if it is well supported ,will not make any distortion,or crackle,or buzzz sound....
Also Natural robes of wood?What do you mean by that?
We make also Bashir type ouds,and I am really very interesting about your theory....you see the competition can produce the progress,and I believe
that this is all that we all want to...
Regards rivo - 2-17-2004 at 07:12 AM
Dear Spyrose,
I'm very happy that you start to discuss this with me, also it's great that you're a doctor, and let me give an Idea about me as well,
I'm a mechanical engineer graduated at 1990 from Helwan university, Cairo, Egypt, and I was and still mad about design material, also I'm a
very good reader in music, philosophy and history, that's a brief about me.
Now lets talk about what you asked for step by step,
First about human throat, for sure you know that it's has something like robes or I don't know the right name which are responsible about
making the sound by vibration (different layers), if you take a good look at the wood you'll find some thin lines going one way beside each
others, we belief that these robes are also responsible about sound output from the wood if we give it some vibration, and actually vibration of
strings is going many ways, some transferred to these robes of wood and some go inside the bowl and some to the air surround, and by experiment we
find that if we changed kind of wood or way of cutting just to make different robes thickness or distribution we have totally different sound output,
you may try it yourself.
Second about the misunderstanding about sound reflection from bowl to sound board, it do reflect by 10% or less if sound have another way to go, but
can you tell me if there is no way for the sound out if bowl except soundboard where it will go, no way else only to sound board, maybe to sides or
middle this I didn't know yet but I will try to get it, and anyway it makes the sound more strong.
Finally about other Oud makers Old and new, for sure we made a wide comparison and I can say that all Oud makers making good Ouds, however there were
no one educated enough to understand what's happening so they can develop or improve.
Please Spyros if there is anything you still can't understand just ask for it.
Best Regardsspyros mesogeia - 2-17-2004 at 08:56 AM
Well dear friend Raafat,
Maybe in Egypt,as you have said there are no people who know this informations,but here in Greece,Turkey,and other countries are very well known for
more then 20 years,I could say about 100 years about our old oudmakers.....
Any how I am glad that you are doing your best to make the instruments better and better....We are on the same side.....
As for the woods and the choosing of the each one,believe me.....there are different criteries-rules to choose for the each type of instrument.....and
each type of sound.....the thickness is very important on the braces and the quality of the wood and many many others.....
But I am really glad that you an open mind and discus with me and the others that we love the oud....maybe one day we will meet eachother and play our
ouds together
Regards and respect
Spyrosrivo - 2-17-2004 at 09:15 AM
Dear Spyros,
Yes you're absolutely right, I was particularly talking about most of great Oud makers in Egypt, they were building the Oud with their feelings
and know how, for sure they made great Ouds for great musicians but they were depending only on their stored information from many generations before
and sometimes on trail and error.
It's just great that in Greece you have such kind of knowledge, and actually no wonder in that, Greece was and still such great civilization that
exported knowledge to all ever the world, you should be so proud to be Greek, and I'm proud to share knowledge with you, so please just keep on
touch and feel free to contact me anytime you like.
All of best regards my friend. spyros mesogeia - 2-17-2004 at 09:27 AM
We are friends from the ancient times my friend Raafat.....
Greek and Egyptian civilisations are very old,and they deserve all the respect.....
I am proud to be Greek,but I respect all the other civilisations and the cultrures who have in theyr base the evolution,the peace and the progress of
the arts.....
This year the olympic games will be done in my country...I am very proud that the peace wiil be the meaning of it....
Regards to all....make peace and play the music....it is the gift from the God[whatever his name is].....we have the bless to play and hear the
music,the oud..... Ronny Andersson - 2-17-2004 at 12:09 PM
There are no doubts about that Egyptian or any Middle Eastern oud maker have an advantage in front of oud makers from Greece. The Bashir oud is not a
rare oud in Cairo and the Iraqi makers instruments are widespread and well-known. Unfortunately many makers (Europeans & Arabs) base their Bashir
models on the classical oud weak construction and nothing good comes then. I have played several Bashir ouds and shared my knowledge and experience
with professional musicians – mostly of Iraqi origin. What Rafaat and Spyros are telling us is common knowledge for many lute makers. Professional
makers like Yaroub have a better understanding what is essential for this type of oud – enough to see his invention for reinforcing the soundboard,
neck and bowl. Yaroub learnt his craftsmanship from his Father Mohammad but he’s not following his father’s concept when it comes to the Bashir.
It would be of great interest if Rafaat could post a sound file - is not necessary with a professional recording. After all the Bashir oud is more
than a floating bridge and oval shaped sound holes. $650 is a low price if the oud produces an authentic ¨Bashir oud¨ sound.spyros mesogeia - 2-17-2004 at 12:24 PM
Oh,and Raafat,If you will visit Greece,please come to visit Athens,and we can play together some music.....and keep the good work....the oud is our
point of search....
Regardsrivo - 2-17-2004 at 12:44 PM
Dear Ronny,
Also you should be right in your words, however there are something I'd like you and others to know, it's not actually the kind of Oud,
it's the Oud maker, and from many Oud makers I deal with I can confirm that every one of them is totally convinced that he's the best and
others just trying to copy his work, even Maurice was like that at the beginning but he came down after I discussed many things with him, and now
he's thinking with me and try to do what I'm saying, and that was a great victory that I made one Oud maker listening to me, I'm
particularly talking about Oud makers in Egypt, but I know some customers in USA and England dealing with other oud makers there, and they told me
that it's the same, and no Oud maker like to hear about others.
also what you said about placing post and reinforcement of sound board is valid for any other part of Ouds, so you can say that if Yaroub is great in
reinforcing of the soundboard other maker is perfect in making the pegs box, and other is perfect in making the bowl, so there is nothing complete,
but it would be great if someone just trying to make everything like books said, and it will be even better if all Oud makers trying the same thing,
but from previous I can say it's a real dream.
Finally it will be so bad that only one Oud maker is making the right Ouds, this will kill the competition, and if it dies there will never be a good
Oud, I think Spyros said this in different way, I think Ronny you get what I meant now.
Dear Spyros,
I'm dreaming to visit your magnificent country, and I will try to plan for this, however my work together with my family needs makes me busy all
the time, but who knows maybe one day we'll meet.
Regards to allspyros mesogeia - 2-17-2004 at 12:54 PM
Dear friend Raafat,
Just keep the good work man,and let your customers judge you....you make ouds,you don't play them only....that makes the diference......
Just keep your evolution....the progress is what we all need....And let the competition speaks....
As you said....we all have to continue to make instruments and diferent sound colors.....and eachone of the oudplayers will choose what he
likes....
Don't let the ''smoke'' to make your dream and creativity stops...just ignore it....your customers are the unswer....and
theyr opinion is that counts....
Regards si repsect
P.S.you are welcome....I hope that I will visit you too....rivo - 2-17-2004 at 01:10 PM
Dear Spyros,
You're a very kind man, I can feel your words as it is, and I'm so sad that we didn't know each other from a long time ago, but
I'm very happy that we became friends at last, I wish you happiness, please if you ever need anything from Egypt ask me for it, and I will do my
best to make your dreams comes true.
