Mike's Oud Forums

Bashir oud

Ronny Andersson - 2-18-2004 at 12:37 PM

I think it’s appropriate with some historical facts about this particular oud and its inventor and creator Mohammad Fadel from Iraq – historical correctness is so important. Mohammad based his creation on the classical Italian mandolin (Mandolino Napolitano). All the features from the mandolin can be found on Mohammad’s Bashir oud, like the bent soundboard, the very high floating bridge and the oval shaped sound holes. What surprise me most is that the bent soundboard is rarely found on ouds by other makers and I believe they make a mistake when they abandon the bent soundboard. This type oud shall not be judged with the parameters of the classical oud and accordingly not being built after the classical oud concept. The classical oud is too weak for the high string tension and the sharp angle the high bridge cause – it certainly adds some force on the soundboard that a classical soundboard can’t withstand over any longer period. My dear friend and master builder Yaroub, have abandon the bent soundboard but as I previously said, he uses his own reinforcement and also modern glues instead of the hide glue that is so sensitive to high humidity. The high humidity was a problem for Munir Bashir in Beirut and also the high string tension he tuned his classical ouds to (concave belly etc). Inn fact this oud was created due to humidity problem and the weak construction the classical oud has. So, if a modern builder now is unaware about some of the historical facts what is then the so called Bashir oud based on and what is the worth then?
I have seen to many Bashir ouds with flat soundboards (Yaroub’s ouds are an exception) and weak construction that collapses after few years and then is the whole concept with Bashir oud lost. Mohammad’s Bashir oud was before its time when it comes to strength and nowadays are some makers trying to copying it without the necessary knowledge and the historical facts. I think that is devastating for this oud.

souhail - 2-25-2004 at 03:04 AM

Ronny you lighted many aspects of the Bashir oud in your post, and what you said about the bent face is interesting, and its a mater for experimentation and studie.
i dont know if mohamads bashir ouds are stronger than ouds made by Foued, Faouzi, Yaroub and other?
the face in yaroubs ouds are not bent as you said, a person who knows Yaroub told me that Naseer Shamma frequently send ouds to Yaroub to repair because the face is damaged due to the tension and you know Naseer works a lot on his ouds.
Naseer oud made by Faouzi (the one you repared) was very good (tonely speeking) but you know with every day work and big tension applied on the instrument someday the face will be damaged. the life of such oud depend also on the oud player, how long he use it, and how high he tune it.

so i don't think that Yaroub make ouds stronger than fawzi or other (serious) bashir oud builders, but it's true that he uses the best materials(wood, glue..)

the other problem is that the process of construction is kept secret no one want to give or to teach how to construct such (as you said) revolutionary oud. you know that Yaroub teach oud construction (he direct a workshop) in the "Conservatoire de Musique de Tunis" but he dont give his students the most important things only general ideas about oud construction and this typical for all oud builders aroud the arab world.
i hope that yaroub or other builder close to mohamed fadhel publish a book describing mohamads building method but i think this is an impossible dream.

Zulkarnain - 2-25-2004 at 05:04 AM

:rolleyes:

nadir - 2-28-2004 at 02:59 PM

Ronny, I observed by teacher's Bashir ouds (made in Iraq) and I noticed that the two were different from each other because of a little raise in the soundboard below the bridge, making an upwards curve. They also sounded completely different from each other! You could feel a different type tension on the proper oud when you struck the strings.

Ronny Andersson - 2-29-2004 at 12:47 PM

Nadir, it's a very interesting observation you are telling. This confirms also my own experience that the quality and construction varies a lot. The bracing on some Bashir ouds are ridiculous to see - inventive? NO. Only the work by untrained luthiers.

nadir - 3-2-2004 at 08:17 AM

I looked at an Italian mandolin (antique) and it does look almost EXACTLY like the Bashir oud... I saw the picture here:

http://www.vintage-instruments.com/navigate/catidx7.htm

It's among the many mandolins there, but, this just goes to prove that Munir Bashir actually did use this instrument as his model for the oud...

Ronny Andersson - 3-2-2004 at 08:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nadir
I looked at an Italian mandolin (antique) and it does look almost EXACTLY like the Bashir oud... I saw the picture here:

http://www.vintage-instruments.com/navigate/catidx7.htm

It's among the many mandolins there, but, this just goes to prove that Munir Bashir actually did use this instrument as his model for the oud...


No because it was Mohammad Fadel who used the mandolin as concept for his oud.

nadir - 3-2-2004 at 08:26 AM

O really? WOAH! Well thanks for clearing that up! It's the whole concept too!