Mike's Oud Forums

La musique arabe-d´erlanger

shivadonga - 3-3-2007 at 03:31 AM

Hi everyone,
Does anyone know if is there translation in english of "La musique arabe" by baron rodolphe d´erlanger (six volumes)
I know there is one in french but in english i don´t know.
If exists in english,please say us where can we buy?
Thanks
Regards

al-Halabi - 3-3-2007 at 07:03 AM

There is no English translation of Erlanger's "La musique arabe." The publisher issued a reprint of the six volumes in 2001, after many years in which they were out of print.

zalzal - 3-3-2007 at 08:08 AM

Which reprint was almost immediately sold off and no volumes available now.
(I tried late 2002 and it was too late)

May be if we contact the publisher and we gather a consequent pre-orders he can reprint a new version.

I think the interesting one is the 2nd volume with a list of a hundred maqams transcribed at the time of d'erlanger XIXth and even lots of partitions fm classical araboandalousian and popular north african music.

The other volumes are a complicated metrical studies, a translation of Al Farabi's book i think....
Pls Al Halabi can you correct me?

al-Halabi - 3-3-2007 at 08:57 AM

I think that academic libraries bought up the reprint very quickly, and it is now hard to find. If I am not mistaken, the Institut du Monde Arabe in Paris was involved in sponsoring the reprint, and maybe it can help arrange for another printing.

The first four volumes of the set are translations into French of several important medieval Arabic treatises on music (al-Farabi, Ibn Sina, al-Urmawi, al-Ladhiqi, etc.).
Volume 5 has a systematic analysis of the Arab tone system and modal system. It includes a review of 119 maqams, each with a taqsim to illustrate the characteristics of the maqam. There is also a short section at the end on the North African Andalusian modes, with an analysis and notations for 29 Tunisian modes.
Volume 6 is an analysis of the various rhythms and genres of Arab music. There are notations of pieces illustrating 111 rhythms, notations of 30 pieces illustrating various genres, and 15 pieces from the Andalusian classical repertoire.

The material and hundreds of musical pieces in volumes 5 and 6 (including the 119 taqsims) came from Erlanger's friend Ali al-Darwish, a master musician from Aleppo. They reflect the musical culture of the 1920s, when the Ottoman influence was still strong. Al-Darwish himself studied music in a conservatory in Istanbul at the beginning of the twentieth century. Many of the maqams in volume 5 are no longer familiar or commonly played today in Arab music but are in use in Turkish music.

Maqam Et Creation PDF (French only)

ALAMI - 3-3-2007 at 01:43 PM

Le colloque Maqam et creation a eu lieu en octobre 2005 a la Fondation Royaumont.
Une vingtaine d'intervenants dont Mohammed Qadri Dalal et Zad Moltaka. Une lecture interessante mais, malheureusement, uniquement en francais.

J'attache en 2 parties la totalite des interventions en pdf

Maqam Et Creation PDF - Part2(French only)

ALAMI - 3-3-2007 at 01:45 PM

Marina - 3-4-2007 at 01:54 AM

:applause:

zalzal - 3-4-2007 at 02:01 AM

Yesss, merci Alami, J'avais regretté ne pas pouvoir y aller à l'epoque.....MILLE MERCIS

jdowning - 3-4-2007 at 07:08 AM

Volumes 2 and 3 are currently for sale on line through AddALL books costing $67 and $82 US respectively.

jdowning - 3-4-2007 at 07:17 AM

....... you might want to check out the several books dealing with Oriental music studies published in English by Henry George Farmer including translations of Arabic theoretical texts - Al-Farabi and others. There are lots of those currently available through AddALL books some at quite reasonable prices.

zalzal - 3-4-2007 at 11:58 AM

The good D'erlanger book to have is volume fifth, with the "systematic analysis of the Arab tone system and modal system....." as al Halabi advised before.

al-Halabi - 3-4-2007 at 12:09 PM

Zalzal,

The web site of the publisher Paul Geuthner shows that they have volume 5 available:

http://www.geuthner.com/fiche_titre.php?ref=1669

zalzal - 3-4-2007 at 12:47 PM

Thank you al Halabi. I ordered it but i think it did'nt worked. There is a re cross in the order line. Anyhow i sent an e-mail. Hope it is still available. This volume is a must.

jdowning - 3-4-2007 at 01:37 PM

Thanks for posting the 2 Pdf files ALAMI - the information looks very interesting.

al-Halabi - 3-4-2007 at 01:43 PM

You are welcome, Zalzal. I hope you are able to get this volume - it is a very useful reference. I was lucky to find the original editions of volumes 5 and 6 in an old bookstore in New York several years ago.

This is possible¡¡¡¡

shivadonga - 3-4-2007 at 02:45 PM

Hi,
I have been investigating in internet and i have found two places where we can buy them:
1:geuthner.com
La musique arabe V . Essai de codification des règles usuelles de la musique arabe moderne
ISBN 2 7053
Prix 27.45 €
2:ilab.org/db/search.php?Author=&Title=la+musique+arabe
D'Erlanger, RodolpheLa Musique Arabe (originally Published 1930 - 1959) Reprint Edition 2001, 6 Volumes.
Reprint edited by Chr. Poché. vol. 1: Al-Farabi. Grand traité de la musique: Kitabul-Musiqi al-Kabir (books I and II) French translation. 39,xxiv,329pp., vol. 2: Sl-Farabi (continued III) Avicenne. Mathématiques:kitabu's-sifa (mathématiques, chap. XII) 310pp. Vol. 3: Safiyu-d-Din al-Urmawi, I. As-Sarafiyya ou Eepitre a Sarafu-d-Din, II. Kitab al-Adwar ou livre des cycles musicaux. xiv,618pp., Vol. 4: Traité anonyme dédié au Sultan Osmanli Muhammad II (15e S.) 530pp., Vol. 5: Essai de codification des règles usuelles de la musique arabe moderne: Echelle générale des sons. Système modal, xv,426pp., Vol. 6: Essai de codification des règles usuelles de la musique arabe moderne: système rythmique. Formes de composition. ix,644pp., this is the edition reprinted in 2001 . CAREFUL, HEAVY SET ASK FOR POSTAL QUOTE FIRST

GBP 225.00 > other currencies ordernr.: 092651-2 bookseller: Thornton's Bookshop (GREAT BRITAIN)
Total price: USD 406.87

ALAMI - 3-4-2007 at 02:57 PM

Thanks guys and girl,

I found that the only way to deal with the fact of "the quirkiness of the seltaught" is to try more "selftaughtness".
Happy to share.

"Kitab Al Aghani" of Abu Al Faraj Al Asfahani which was one of d'Erlanger sources can be found as a free download and in clean Arabic PDF (All volumes, 25 MB) on:

http://www.al-mostafa.com

You'll have to dig a bit or if you can type arabic type "Aghani" in the search field

al-Halabi - 3-4-2007 at 06:13 PM

Alami,

Thanks for the reference to this web site. It includes the classic Arabic and Islamic texts in almost all areas of learning, although it is weak in the area of music. I was surprised that it does not include al-Farabi's "Kitab al-musiqi al-kabir," but the massive "Kitab al-Aghani" (10th century) is there. Its 24 volumes of stories on the medieval music scene can keep you occupied for a while. Two other titles related to music that I noticed on the web site are "Rasa'il Ikhwan al-Safa" (10th century), which includes a discussion of music and its cosmological aspects , and Ibn Abi al-Dunya's "Dhamm al-malahi" (9th century), among the earliest Islamic texts condemning music and instruments. This author would not have been happy with our passion for the oud - he thought stringed instruments were the worst for exciting the senses and diverting the mind from piety and observance.

ALAMI - 3-5-2007 at 12:03 AM

Al-Halabi, I was amazed to find that someone cared to put so much arabic books free online(there is also an English section), I've also noticed a book about the history of andalusian music and I am still browsing. The main interest of the site seems religious and music seems a subject that they avoid.
Another intresting site is dedicated to one of the greatest soufi minds : Al Ghazali (it is an English site with many translations in english)

http://www.ghazali.org/

al-Halabi - 3-5-2007 at 09:32 AM

Alami, I agree, this is a literary treasurehouse. Only major academic libraries would have anything close to this collection on their shelves. There is a strong emphasis on religious texts, but I was amazed by the sheer number of books and their coverage. I looked closely at the titles in the field of history, for example, and found all the important Arabic chronicles.
Other full-text databases of digitized books are generally available only by subscription because of copyright restrictions. On this unrestricted web site it looks like this wasn't a concern.
Thanks again for the reference.

ALAMI - 3-5-2007 at 11:16 AM

This thread that started about an english translation request is ending up by being a concentrate of available ressources in french and arabic which many members speak (and the others will forgive, I hope).
Found : "Kitab Al Musiqa Al Sharki" by Mohammad Kamel Al Khale'y - Cairo 1927. (reedited in 2000 by Madbouly - Egypt) It is a scan and not of high quality (see image)

It has the most beautiful definition of oud i've ever read, I will torture my English attempting a translation (which will not be anywhere near the lyrism of the original in Arabic)

" The oud ! played in so many ways and with such an art that it is almost out of this world, it is unanimously the sultan of all instruments, hearing its sound is a healing to the body and a soothing to the mood, it is a therapy and what a therapy! dew to the brain, freshness to the heart and balance to the mind, washing concerns, feeding the souls and taking sadness away"

On another page the author is referencing 2 manuscripts about oud-making:
- "Kitab Halwa Al Founoun Wa Salwa Al Mahzoun" of Abi Al Hassan Mohammad Al Hassan Known as "Al Tahan"
- "Kitab Abdel Hamid Bek" among Al Azhar manuscripts
- and one printed book : "Kitab Tihfat al Maw'oud" of Zaker Bek

The Full Book on ftp link(just paste the link - the whole line- in yr browser)

ftp://oud_stuff:oudstuff@clamato.dreamhost.com//KitabAlMusiqaAlSharki.pdf

al-Halabi - 3-5-2007 at 01:19 PM

Alami, al-Khula'i's book (first published in Cairo in 1904) was actually reprinted in 1993 (in Beirut by Awraq Sharqiyah). Maybe you can still find it. It gives a picture of Arab music before the massive changes of the 20th century.

Also Ibn al-Tahhan's manuscript that you mentioned has now been published in facsimile (in Germany in 1990). The author was the oud player in the court ensemble of the Fatimid caliph in Cairo (11th century). He describes how ouds were constructed and tuned at the time, and how their frets were spaced and tied on the neck. Ouds in Cairo at that time had six frets.

jdowning - 3-5-2007 at 01:30 PM

Now I am really suffering from information overload - just keep it coming!

That is a great site which even covers the topic of paper and early Arabic printing technologies. French is OK for me but sadly I have no knowledge of Arabic - so translations to English are always welcome - given that much is always lost in translation.

Interesting to note that the oud is depicted with a straight sided pegbox.

rebetostar - 3-5-2007 at 01:56 PM

Thanks for the heads-up on this book!!
I looked it up at my University library and, lo and behold, all 6 volumes are here. I have volumes 5 & 6 in my hands right now.
They are in French, but the important info. is in musical score.
I will scan the relevant pages to PDF and post them here if it will help..
It may take some time though.
:D

al-Halabi - 3-5-2007 at 02:11 PM

Egyptian ouds had straight pegboxes at the time. You can see this feature also in the diagram of an Egyptian oud drawn by the French musicologist Villoteau around 1800, posted on this thread:

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=3041&pa...

rebetostar, Erlanger's book is under copyright, so posting any parts of it without the publisher's permission is not a good idea. It will put this web site in violation of copyright.

ALAMI - 3-5-2007 at 02:26 PM

Thanks for the infos Al Halabi, will try a search in Beirut, unfortunately many of the good old bookshops in Beirut closed down the last few years, I may have a better chance in Tripoli, a city with a tradition of librarians keeping old books and where it is still possible to find first editions. I have an early edition of Al Jahiz (Kitab Al Hayawan) - 1843 and my family keeps some manuscripts that are more than 500 year old including an original manuscript (not sure if it is "the") of Kitab Al Rawd Al Fayeq (1460) that was lately reedited in Cairo.

And Last : AlMusiqa_Al_Andalusiah - Abdel Aziz Ben Abdel Jalil

ftp://oud_stuff:oudstuff@clamato.dreamhost.com//AlMusiqa_Al_Andalusiah.pdf

alchemy - 9-7-2015 at 03:19 PM

Hey guys, sorry for reviving this old thread, but the attachments and FTP links are not working anymore. Is it possible for you to re-upload? I was interested on Kitab Al Musiqa Al Sharki, AlMusiqa Al Andalusiah and similar.
Thanks in advance!