Mike's Oud Forums

question about strings

zou - 3-21-2007 at 11:13 AM

i want to buy custom strings but the buyer wants to know the tention in kg/ p. string how much kg for a very light tension (old nahat)
thank you for your reply

excentrik - 3-21-2007 at 12:31 PM

whats up zou-

go to khalafoud.com -

Jameel will help you out with the perfect set of strings- plus he's co-forumer-

tarik

ALAMI - 3-21-2007 at 12:41 PM

I would like to join the request of Zou:

In order to asses what strings should I get for my "normal" ouds and what (and where) to get the best for the antique one: (and as a normal rational only-human being)
I did my homeworks by going through a hundred or so "what Strings ?", "Great Strings !" threads on over 130 pages on these forums, I crossed matched infos did a lot of copy paste into one text file, I printed it, I read it in my bed, contradictions gave me insomnia, I went to many string makers websites, I contacted Pyramid (no answer) I contacted Aquila where Mr Mimmo advised me to contact Mr Ghadban. By the way, my contact in Switzerland will be able to get gut strings (from USA !) as soon as next August ! (after resolving the equations relative to the 63 cm length)
I ended up as ignorant as I started, but with a richer "string vocabulary".
Mr Ghadban contacted me this evening and was very nice and explained a lot of options to me for more than half an hour.
I still don't get it. It seems that the problem is with my brain, I surrender.
I think I will follow his advice: taking the ouds to him and let him decide.
It seems that in this world it is easier to get radioactive biochemical weapons than : "THE RIGHT STRINGS"

samzayed - 3-21-2007 at 03:47 PM

ALAMI, I feel your pain brother. . .

I have been studying strings for the past 4 years. I have observed, recorded, and documented my findings. I have posted, pondered, compared, calculated, configured, and tested. My conclusion, there is no "right" set - its trial and error. It will depend on your taste, string length, tuning, and how the strings react with your oud.

I've used lute strings (medium tension, around 36N), Aquilas, D'Addario, Pyramid oud, Pyramid Super Aoud, LaBella, Thomastik, and I always had some issue with each of these brands.

Currently, I've come full circle with D'Addario on my Ghadban, and I'm very happy with them. For $15, I can't justify the $50 for a custom lute set. They work, even though they are meant for the Turkish tuning.

I like medium - low tension. For arabic tuning (C F A d g c'), generally I found these tensions to be somewhat within in the norm

C - 35 - 39 N
F - 35 - 39 N
A - 35 - 39 N
d - 35 - 39 N
g - 33 or below (25 - 33)
c' - 33 or below (25 - 33)

The d and the A strings tend to be the highest tension in any set I've used, and the nylons the lowest tension. The other strings, somewhere between. Also, use rectified nylon over plain if possible. They are more accurate in guage and sound smoother.

When I get my new Faruk Turunz oud, this madness starts all over again :D

ALAMI - 3-21-2007 at 11:10 PM

Thanks Sam, it seems that this string "ritual" is the kind of Hercules 12 labors that every oudist has to go through alone in order to be admitted in the Oud Olympian Order.

And you are right I have a 20$ set sounding better than the 50$ one (except the f on the 7 course CFAdgcf), the Pyramid f was great but not the rest.( is hybrid set a blasphemy ?)

Still on old ouds, and it was zou question, what is really "low tension and still sounds good"
The Aquila light, seems not to be low tension "enough"
I was also told of a fancy Pyramid custom low tension lute set (i was not told the Ref as my rank does not allow me the access to such high initiation Mysteries), so custom that it is a 110$ set and that has a very short life!

Clemency O Zeus!

samzayed - 3-22-2007 at 01:59 AM

zou's question is hard to answer, there are no absolute truths to this. Most of the time I go by numbers alone, and I get disappointed. There is a degree of trial and error, you see what you like and dont like and make adjustement along the way.

Generally, lowest I've heard is 31 N, and you can even go to the mid-upper 20's for the nylons. That's if you're a afraid the higher tension may harm an old oud. But this is just a theory - a starting benchmark. Some courses might be fine and some may need a little higher or lower. I personally think that each course has an optimum tension, and it not neccessarily uniform across each course. And the biggest factor, each one has his own taste.

The Aquila low tension was more in the mid range, its was definitely lower than their originally set which was really high. Jameel has a extra light set, which may light enough. Man, its like buying cigarettes. Marbolo lights were light, but the reds were just too much for my throat . . .:D

Good luck. May your new strings come out perfect :bounce:

zou - 3-22-2007 at 12:58 PM

thank you for your help, i find a new kind of strings : hannabach strings, i know that rabih abou khalil use them for his nahats, i decided to try them
perhaps you know them ?

samzayed .. can i give the buyer the tention you gave here ? is it a very light tention?

samzayed - 3-22-2007 at 01:47 PM

I have no experience with Hannabach, sorry . .

Yeah, you can take any tensions and tell a string manufactur (Pyramid, Savarez, Aquila) to customize a set of strings based on tensions. You also need to provide to them the tuning, string length, and the number of strings for each course.

You should talk to Jameel on this, he may have experience with extra light strings, and he may know how low is too low

zou - 3-23-2007 at 08:43 AM

thanks a lot
zou

Matthias - 3-24-2007 at 06:29 AM

Hello all,

comming a bite late to this thread, I will try to help you.

Being concerd with strings, with stringing plucked instruments for a lot of years, first for me and my clients' lutes, I came up to the making of ouds and their stringing. First of all I checked out all the existing sets offered by different producers. The result of this research you can find here:
http://www.music-strings.de/download-center_1-6/index.php?kat_id=1&...

In this file you will find besides the different sets from the producers a lot of sets, that I have composed for different tuníngs and tensions for my clients. I think these may be helpful for you to find out "your" set.

An interesting point was, that not all producers were able or willing to give me the detail informations, especially the tensions of their sets. So some gaps remain.

Furthermore I tried out different sets and tensions. Comming over to the oud from 25 years of lute making my result is, that in general a tension of about 33 Newton ( 37 Newton for the single low string ) is absolutely enough for the most of good instruments. Probably for an old oud like a Nahat, a bit a lower tension may be good in respect to the age and the probable fragility of the instrument.
To my opinion, most of the offered sets from different producers have a too high tension and besides that are varying too much in tension within the set. I use a nearly homogen tension.

Only one exeption will exist in oud stringing: the stets for the iraqi oud with the floating bridge need more tension. In general I add around 10 Newton per string.

Samzayed asked for the Hannabach strings, that have been especially made for Rabih Abou Khalil for his Nahat instruments with a string length of 63,5 cm. I'm not shure if he still uses these strings as he has now a "new" Nahat from 1924 ( which sounds really very great - heard him last december). I will ask him about the strings when I will meet him next time. I know this set and have sold it several times. May be a bit a too low tension for 60 cm string length. The two highest strings are gut, the other are golden wound ( not coulered - plated with pure gold! ) which makes them very expensive. At the moment, I do not have the exact price at the moment, but it will be around over 125,-- EUR without german taxes.

For my own instruments and in most other cases I do use the lute strings by PYRAMID. I realized, that they sound very well, are stable in tuning, last very long ( up to one year ) and cost around 36,-- EUR ( = 48,-- $ ) without taxes. With the lute strings you have the chance to compose a really indivlidual set for your instrument, what I can do for you, if you are not familiar with the PYRAMID numbers.

So I hope that I could help you a bit with this first message. I'm shure a lot of question will remain. I will try to anser them in further postings or in direct contacts.

Finally I do not want to forget to mention that I'm able to send off most of available strings within 10 days all around the world. ( nylon, carbon gut, nylgut .... -- PYRAMID, Aquila, Savarez, Hannabach, ... )

All the best

Matthias

paulO - 3-24-2007 at 05:19 PM

Hi Zou,

Re-read Alami and Sam's posts again. Finding a decent set of strings that works well with any particular oud can drive you nuts. Print out Alami and Sam's posts, and keep them in your oud case..do not throw them away. Every time you think you've found some excellent strings..take the posts out and read them !! Good luck dude.

Regards...PaulO

Ronny Andersson - 3-25-2007 at 10:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by paulO
Hi Zou,

Re-read Alami and Sam's posts again. Finding a decent set of strings that works well with any particular oud can drive you nuts. Print out Alami and Sam's posts, and keep them in your oud case..do not throw them away. Every time you think you've found some excellent strings..take the posts out and read them !! Good luck dude.

Regards...PaulO


Is that really a wise recommendation? I believe it cause more confusion than any help and I think is better to ¨print¨ out Matthias post and at least contact some cooperative string dealers with an interest in ouds and their stringing.
I understand if Pyramid and other string makers pay little attention to an individual person request so why not talk to some string dealers like Matthias Wagner here in Europe who really have done some serious research and also with the help from professional players.
Is always a pleasure to talk to Matthias about oud strings and any oud matter btw!
Is really not so difficult to find out a good stringing for your oud if you have established a good playing skill and the correct use of the plectrum and not least a good ear.

jazzchiss - 3-26-2007 at 12:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zou
thank you for your help, i find a new kind of strings : hannabach strings, i know that rabih abou khalil use them for his nahats, i decided to try them
perhaps you know them ?


I use Hannabach Guitar strings Yellow (Super Low Tension) for courses 6 to 3 and LaBella Oud Strings for courses 2 and 1.
I tune my Ghabdan all in fourths and the tension is very equilibrated.

paulO - 3-26-2007 at 04:36 AM

Hi Ronny,

1. Uh...I just re-read my post, and it sounds really goofy..Zou, please dis-regard the negative reinforcement. Once you get the new set on your oud, and give them a couple of weeks to settle in and enjoy !!

2. Matthias is a great guy to work with. A friend of mine Vic worked with Matthias in 2000 to get some custom Pyramid lute sets for our Karibians, as well as some PVF trebles. He was great to work with, and this is "back in the day" when getting Pyramid strings was a bit of a hassle. Re-read his post !

3.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ronny
Is really not so difficult to find out a good stringing for your oud if you have established a good playing skill and the correct use of the plectrum and not least a good ear.
Okay -- when I went to visit Richard Hagopian in 1977 in Visalia, CA -- he played my cheapo beginner oud, and it sounded amazing..so much better sounding than when I played it.

Regards..PaulO