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Abraham Oud for Mike

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Mike - 6-10-2007 at 10:33 PM

Okay, I finally decided to ask Jameelo to make me an oud! Poker has been pretty good to me.

I can't even begin to say how excited I am. He has already started on the project. So far he's got the mould done, ribs bent, some rosettes carved, neck block and tail block ready to go on the mould. Oh, and he's created some of the inlay work too. Here are some images of his progress so far. By the way, this oud is based on an Abdo Nahat that I saw in France at my friend Adel Salameh's place when I visited him a few months back. We probably aren't going to make the same fingerboard design though.

Here's a shot of the oud this project is based on.

Here are a couple of shots of the mould.

I decided to go with square inlays instead of parallelograms. These are a lot trickier to do than the parallelograms, because there are much more pieces. I think the parallelogram has 5 pieces, while the square has 20 or 21 pieces. Of'course he nailed it though! We went with a design on Marc Loopuyt's Nahat oud, not what is on Adel's Abdo.

Here's a shot of Marc Loopuyt's Nahat oud inlay.

Here's what Jameelo came up with. Here's his first try.

More refined. Like I said, Jameelo nailed it!

This weekend he worked on the roses. They will be carved from bone. We decided to go with the kissing doves for the small roses. This is what is on Hamza el Din's Nahat oud. You will notice that Jameelo's Oud #2 has what is on Adel's Nahat for the small roses. Just mixing it up a little, and i must say, Jameelo killed it. These things came out perfect!

Here are those shots. Aren't they sweet?

Cyberquills - 6-10-2007 at 10:54 PM

Very impressive work Jameel!

CQ

SamirCanada - 6-11-2007 at 06:34 AM

wow! Jameel... speachless already... and I cant wait to be blown away by the rest of the oud.
this is really exiting.

rromadOud - 6-11-2007 at 06:49 AM

GORGEOUS!!!!

very nice work Jameel.............can't wait to see more.

Thanks for sharing Mike and congrats !

oudplayer - 6-11-2007 at 07:41 AM

wooohoooooo
that oud will look amazing , congrads on it mike,

jameel when I become as good as mike in poker(even though i can take him all in anyday)

i would love to buy one of these.
cant wait for more
thx sammy

Melbourne - 6-12-2007 at 02:19 AM

My God guys.....I reckon this is the best thing to hit the forum in months! It's so exciting following Jameel's work in progress.....Congrats Mike, am sure you must feel like an expectant father

Mike - 6-15-2007 at 04:36 PM

Here's a shot of Jameelo bending the purfling for the bowl. The bowl will be made of walnut, and it will have maple - walnut - maple purling between the ribs. He consulted with another luthier on the best way to make his own purfling.

In a nutshell: he glued three large sheets of veneer together of maple - walnut - maple using hide glue. He pressed it flat, then sawed this sheet into 3mm wide strips. He used Hank Levin's technique of binding all the strips together with thread and bending them as if they were one rib. Here's where his bending mechanism came in handy. He slapped the whole thing in the bender and within minutes he had them all bent...pretty amazing!!!

Next up...bowl making.

WOO HOO!!

Here's the bent purfling tied with string on Jameelo's bending mechanism.

Cyberquills - 6-15-2007 at 07:48 PM

Great blue blistering barnacles!

That is fan-flipping-tastic. Go Jameel.

Lucky lucky Mike!

CQ

SamirCanada - 6-18-2007 at 05:52 AM

looking good...
cant wait to see more!

abusin - 6-18-2007 at 06:32 AM

Good luck to you Mike,

Another gem in you collection, I am sure it will turn out to be a fab one.
Jameel you rock man, I'll be trying my luck at Lotto and poker soon man to get me a Khalaf oud in shaAllah
best regards to all,
Awad

Jonathan - 6-18-2007 at 03:12 PM

Wow. Your work is always an inspirtation for me, Jameel.
Congrats, Mike.

Jameel, I tried bending purfling like that, but had a lot of problems with the purfling twisting and bending over 90 degrees. Any tips?

Jameel - 6-18-2007 at 04:47 PM

Thanks fellas.

Jonathan, I just tied them together flat, clamped them in the bender and bent away. Went about as fast as a typical walnut rib. No special technique. Just let the heat do its job. I think the trick here is the use of the bender. I could see how trying to bend this bundle, even tied up, over an iron that twisting would be a problem. Did you try it in your bender?

More Progress

Mike - 6-24-2007 at 06:33 PM

Jameel got some work in on the main shams. I asked him to do the same one he used on his Oud#2. I really like that style a lot. He also started on the bowl too.

Main Shams

Bowl

MatthewW - 6-24-2007 at 11:55 PM

what a wonderful oud you will have Mike! great to see the work done in stages and appreciate the skill and craftsmanship that goes into every detail of making the instrument we all love. I wish I had Jameels's talent! I've wanted to ask this before: seeing the open bowl with the support bracing it does looks very sturdy, and I once heard that you ought to be able to actually sit on a well made oud (unless you weigh 1/2 ton), that the support bracing in the bowl is much stronger than it looks? Now this is something I am not about to try out on my oud, but is there any truth to this?

abusin - 6-25-2007 at 07:24 AM

Hi Mike,

Yes man that Khalaf shams rocks, Its just awesome I just can't wait to see this beauty strung and taken for a drive.

next one will be mine if all goes ok with the bankman

Good luck to you, and best regards to Jameelo

Awad

Mike - 6-25-2007 at 08:48 AM

try taking up poker Awad. if your friends are as crazy as mine, then you'll have you an Abraham in no time.

mavrothis - 6-25-2007 at 08:18 PM

This is just great guys. I can't wait for more posts on Jameel's progress - it's hard to describe the excitement of seeing an instrument built step by step - I guess it's only topped by the feeling the maker actually has.

Thanks guys,

mavrothis

abusin - 6-26-2007 at 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike
try taking up poker Awad. if your friends are as crazy as mine, then you'll have you an Abraham in no time.

I wish Mike, but I don't think I'll be as lucky as you buddy

I'll always be a fan of Jameel's fantastic craftsmanship and attention to details, may God bless his talented hands and I will be applauding him whenever he comes out with a stunner, who knows one day he might send me one as a gift :bounce:

keep it coming man, I can't wait for that sound clip, and good luck Mike :airguitar:

Awad

Jameel - 6-30-2007 at 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MatthewW
I've wanted to ask this before: seeing the open bowl with the support bracing it does looks very sturdy, and I once heard that you ought to be able to actually sit on a well made oud (unless you weigh 1/2 ton), that the support bracing in the bowl is much stronger than it looks? Now this is something I am not about to try out on my oud, but is there any truth to this?

Do you mean the mould Matthew? That doesn't stay in the oud. It's just a support structure for building the bowl.

A friend and professional oudist once told me that a famous maker said his ouds were so strong, you could stand on them. He did it, and it didn't break. I still don't beleive that story. And I can't understand what it means either. :shrug:

We got an update...

Mike - 6-30-2007 at 09:36 PM

Jameelo was telling me how much more difficult it is to fit the ribs with purflings than without them. By looking at these pictures, I would say he nailed it! When we were discussing what to go with for the bowl, I was kind of leaning towards going with two different woods. I'm happy we decided to go with all walnut and the purflings instead. The wood is absolutely incredible, and I really think the purfling accentuates the dark walnut beautifully.

Ain't she pretty?

MatthewW - 7-1-2007 at 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jameel

Quote:

thanks for the feedback Jameel. I guess I was referring to the mold! I'm still intrigued by the stories that you can stand or sit on a well made and braced oud and not have it collapse. The story seems to be closer to an 'oud myth', perhaps based on the concept of the strength of the classical arch,a shape which we find more or less in the bowl of the instrument. It seems that these stories so far are closer to rumours or tall tales!

Ronny Andersson - 7-2-2007 at 04:56 AM

Jameel, what specie of walnut do you use?

Jameel - 7-2-2007 at 06:59 AM

American Black Walnut (Juglans Nigra).

The wood for this particlaur oud came from a 4"x4" square that was cut probably 20-30 years ago. It's been sitting in a farmer's garage for that long. I get these blanks from a local sawyer. They are large so I can cut ribs for one oud all from the same piece of wood and match them. Another reason this wood has excellent color is that it wasn't steamed. Lots of walnut is steamed in the kiln so the pigment from the dark runs into the sapwood. I don't care for this walnut, it looses its rich color and working properties. It takes on a more muddied color and lacks the some of the color variation of non-steamed walnut.

Jonathan - 7-3-2007 at 11:35 AM

Wow.
Jameel, can you explain your approach to gluing in the purfling? I used purfling on that first bowl I made, and I thought it was a bit problematic--difficult to work with, the problem of residual glue, etc. Are you inserting the purfling at the same time as you glue in the adjacent rib?
Your right--the machine bender works great for the purfling. I used painter tape and put together a band of 15 purfling strips, and it worked great. With the tape I was able to get them to stay tightly together, so there was no twisting. And, surprisingly, no significant residue.

Should steamed wood be avoided, then? Does it lose its figure? I have some steamed pear that I was tempted to use, but I would rather waste the wood than go through the effort of making a bowl that is unsatisfactory.

The sham is amazing, Jameel.

SamirCanada - 7-3-2007 at 11:56 AM

wow... thats a nice looking bowl so far and the shams is amazing like Jonathan said.
looking forward to see this one come to life!.

Jameel - 7-3-2007 at 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jonathan
Wow.
Jameel, can you explain your approach to gluing in the purfling? I used purfling on that first bowl I made, and I thought it was a bit problematic--difficult to work with, the problem of residual glue, etc. Are you inserting the purfling at the same time as you glue in the adjacent rib?
Your right--the machine bender works great for the purfling. I used painter tape and put together a band of 15 purfling strips, and it worked great. With the tape I was able to get them to stay tightly together, so there was no twisting. And, surprisingly, no significant residue.

Should steamed wood be avoided, then? Does it lose its figure? I have some steamed pear that I was tempted to use, but I would rather waste the wood than go through the effort of making a bowl that is unsatisfactory.

The sham is amazing, Jameel.

You're familiar with my rib-fitting procedure from my last oud--the cherry bowl. So once the rib is fit to my satisfaction (side I'm about to glue fit to previous rib and opposite side planed and sanded flat) I bend my purfling (since its opened up a little since it came out of the bender) so it matches real nice and rub a bead of glue along the previous rib that's on the mould. I do this with the mould swung around so that edge of the rib is facing up--just makes it easy to apply the glue. When I have a nice little bead of glue---no need to slather it up, just a little is fine--you only want little beads of squeeze out--not a line of dripping glue--I place the spacer on the rib on the mould and press it in place a little with my fingers. Just enough to get it stuck. Then I swing the mould back around so the spacer is facing me (bowl is now with the arch up and the flat face down) and I quickly run another little bead of glue on the loose rib edge and at the neck and tail block areas. The rib already has strapping tape all along it so I dont have to take time to apply this while gluing. Then I place the rib on the mould and press it into the purfling and pull tight with the tape. Press in the push pins at the blocks and check to make sure everything is lined up--especially making sure the spacer is not sunk into the bowl, but is protruding a little. That's it. It would be less hectic maybe to get everything fit then glue the spacer to the loose rib and wrap with string. Let dry for a half hour or so then glue that to the previous rib. But by the time I've got everything fit, I don't feel like waiting for that spacer to dry, so I just wing it and do both at once. It's not bad really. Just have everything set up and close at hand.

Steamed wood isn't necessarily bad, I just don't like steamed walnut for ouds because of the color issues, and other issues with it that I might not be aware of. I'd rather have it be just dried. I did bend some walnut from this billet with a spritz of water (steam when it hit the iron) to see what happened, and it definitely changed its color. Bending walnut dry is pretty easy anyway...

journeyman - 7-8-2007 at 07:40 AM

Incredible work as always Jameel! Is there a concern when choosing two types of wood; one for the ribs and one for the purfling, in terms of density or elasticity? I have an oud that uses mahogany for the ribs and a light coloured wood for the purfling (it could be maple) and I have had problems with the seams separating in the winter. I was told that in my case the mahogany and the wood used for the purfling were not a good match due to the difference in density, absorption, elasticity etc., and probably resulted in this problem which will most likely happen again. Any comments on this?

Thanks,
Roy

Mazin - 7-15-2007 at 01:05 PM

WELL DONE JAMEEL, CONG MIKE

meazaf - 7-23-2007 at 01:46 PM

i just registered in this great fourm hello to every one and u jameel u the best and congratulation to mike for his oud,

Jameel - 7-29-2007 at 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by journeyman
Incredible work as always Jameel! Is there a concern when choosing two types of wood; one for the ribs and one for the purfling, in terms of density or elasticity? I have an oud that uses mahogany for the ribs and a light coloured wood for the purfling (it could be maple) and I have had problems with the seams separating in the winter. I was told that in my case the mahogany and the wood used for the purfling were not a good match due to the difference in density, absorption, elasticity etc., and probably resulted in this problem which will most likely happen again. Any comments on this?

Thanks,
Roy

I don't think it matters so much. I mean, yeah, there could be issues with wood movement and some swelling issues, but as long as everything stays together, what's the harm? It would seem to me to be mostly an aesthetic issue. I suppose over several cycles, it could cause joint failure. That's a good point. Maybe your light colored wood is really fiber? I don't have much experience with the stuff, but gut feeling tells me it would be more prone to changes in humidity. I think in the end the best advice is to keep your oud in a controlled environment. This isn't always practical for musicians. But for people like me, it's possible. I rarely take my oud out, and the room I keep it in stays between 40-60% year round.

journeyman - 7-31-2007 at 10:50 AM

HI JAMEEL,
I was told by my our repair guy, Sabah Al-Tayyar (Saad's brother) that joining woods with too much of a difference in density could cause the problem of separation as they absorb moisture to different degrees and when they dry out one shrinks more than the other. Being in Canada with severe winters is probably more of an issue than living in most other climates. Central heating is a killer, even with a humidifier. Your point is of course valid, that if the oud is kept in a controlled environment this is not an issue. I was curious to get your opinion before I buy another oud.

I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that I can't wait to see your next project.

All the best,
Roy

Jameel - 8-1-2007 at 05:18 AM

Roy,

Yeah, I would have to agree with Al-Tayyar. When I said I don't think it matters so much I was mainly talking if a person takes care to monitor the ouds environment. But you're right, winters are brutal. There is a high-end guitar shop here in town (and our winters are cold enough to pose humidity problems) that keep the showroom at 50-60% year round. The windows are constantly fogged, and when you walk in from the cold, it feels like your entering a sauna. I can't wait to see my next project done either! I like building them, but finishing them is the best part. I made some progress recently, I'm sure Mike will post something soon....

The Rosettes are Done!

Mike - 8-1-2007 at 08:11 AM

We got an update!

Jameel tells me he's got 4 more ribs to go and the bowl will be done...his least favorite part of making an oud.

The Finished Rosettes

MatthewW - 8-1-2007 at 08:36 AM

mmm, what lovely rosettes, the icing on the cake!
what material are they made of?
Also, welcome to the forum meazaf!

SamirCanada - 8-1-2007 at 11:10 AM

Roy, could you please email me Sabah's number or email
at samir_nassif@hotmail.com

thanks a bunch.

SamirCanada - 8-1-2007 at 11:14 AM

Jameel!! Jameel!! Jameel!!

Iam not just saying your name Iam using it to describe
how impressed Iam with the Shamsiya and qamarat.
thanks for the updates.

what does the main rosette say?

Mike... alf mabrouk

Beas.One - 8-1-2007 at 09:56 PM

These are just perfect! The detail is amazing. I am becoming more and more jealous.

Ararat66 - 8-2-2007 at 09:37 AM

Hi Jameel

That rosette is amazing, you're a great craftsman - what is your process for cutting?

Brilliant stuff

Leon

Jameel - 8-2-2007 at 02:05 PM

Thanks fellas.

I'm enjoying this project, even though it's been the most challenging one yet. The new bowl shape I'm using is tricky to make, but should be very nice, very "Nahat-ish".

Mike has also been a real sport in letting me know what exactly he wants on this oud. Trouble is, everytime I ask him for some money, all I get is a bunch of poker chips.....

Quote:

Originally posted by MatthewW
mmm, what lovely rosettes, the icing on the cake!
what material are they made of?

Bone, with a 3-ply walnut backing

Alan - 8-8-2007 at 12:38 PM

Absolutely fantastic! Those rosettes are amazing. You are a luck guy Mike. Mabruck to you on your new oud and to Jameel, you sir are master artist.

PrinceAbigor - 8-14-2007 at 02:20 AM

Truly amazing. I don't think I would have lasted through making the rosette! Such attention to detail is definately admirable.

excentrik - 8-17-2007 at 02:27 PM

Jameel.

Dude.

You rock.

tarik

Jameel - 8-17-2007 at 03:00 PM

Thanks guys. Lets' hope this one sounds as nice as it looks....

Melbourne - 8-17-2007 at 08:47 PM

Mike you need to play more poker my friend....so we can see this more of this oud coming along

Major Update

Mike - 8-19-2007 at 08:36 PM

Looks like our friend Jameelo has been a busy dude lately. Look what he's been up to. :applause:

One more rib to go...

The finished bowl...I think it turned out awesome!

I knew I wanted to incorporate the parallelogram design in the tail end piece, but Jameel and I didn't like that there was too much space on the top of the semi-circle. So we eventually decided to make it an exact half circle and widen the diameter. This pretty much allowed the paralleogram to fall right in the center of the tail piece inlay.

Here's a mock up of the parallelogram with a semi-circle with too much empty space on top.

Here we were looking to see what it would look like without a geometric design. No go.

Final tail piece - half circle - inlaid but without the parallelogram. Picture coming soon.

For the inlay on the bowl, I wanted to keep it relatively simple. We decided to go with a long central inlay design on the center rib and two parallelograms on each side. It's a design I have seen on Nahats before.

Here are the inlays prepped and all ready to go.

Applying the inlays to the bowl. Not bad, eh?

One last shot of Jameelo doing his thing.

ALAMI - 8-20-2007 at 11:15 PM

MY GOD ! The alien is sucking Jameel's brain !
It is the most beautiful serie I've ever watched on a screen.
Amazing work
Waiting for the happy ending.

Melbourne - 8-21-2007 at 03:02 AM

Wow amazing as usual - good to see that you've adopted the small strip of white in between the ribs Jameel - it really adds to the beauty of the bowl!

Jameel - 8-21-2007 at 01:49 PM

What brain??? You mean there's supposed to be something up there? :rolleyes:

Authorities baffled, magic suspected

carpenter - 8-21-2007 at 02:32 PM

The jaw-droppingly gorgeous work I've come to expect! Thanks for the in-process pictures; they keep me humble.

I got out my big ol' compass and ruler, figuring rib widths and arcs, and all I can say is that it appears that we're pressing ever deeper into eggshell territory. How thick do you imagine the finished ribs will be? Are the inlays more or less paper-thin, then?

A) It can't be done; B) It's magic. Applause! :bowdown:

Jameel - 8-21-2007 at 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by carpenter
The jaw-droppingly gorgeous work I've come to expect! Thanks for the in-process pictures; they keep me humble.

I got out my big ol' compass and ruler, figuring rib widths and arcs, and all I can say is that it appears that we're pressing ever deeper into eggshell territory. How thick do you imagine the finished ribs will be? Are the inlays more or less paper-thin, then?

A) It can't be done; B) It's magic. Applause! :bowdown:

Jim,

These ribs are just over 2mm. The inlay is just under 2mm, and the inlay mortise is just over 1mm. So I end up with inlay that's just about 1mm thick when it's all said and done. I have the ribs scraped nice when I go to do the inlay so there isnt much to remove later. I just set my bit depth for 1+mm and go for it. Something slipped in one of these little areas (I'm not telling!) and I routed a little deeper than I should have, so when I went to clean up the edge with my chisel, I punched through in one small spot. Okay, don't tell Mike!! Seriously though, once the inlay was glued, all was fine. Hey, nobody's perfect.

Mike - 8-21-2007 at 10:43 PM

The bowl is pretty much complete at this point. The inlays are all scraped down and flush with the bowl. The tail piece inlay is complete as well. Looks incredible. Unbelievable work!

Here are some shots of the inlay on the bowl.

Here's a closeup shot of the parallelogram in the tail piece.

Cyberquills - 8-21-2007 at 11:38 PM

Fantastic work Jameel :applause:

oudplayer - 8-22-2007 at 06:32 AM

hey jameel

great work :xtreme:

looks amazing i and i cant wait to see more .
keep rocking on

thx sammy

Starting on the Neck

Mike - 8-27-2007 at 06:44 PM

Here are some shots of the neck being made. Not shaped yet, but very good progress.

This dovetail joint is going to be super strong. Much better than the old school dowel joint used in the past.

Here's what we've got planned for inlay on the neck. Probably going to inlay some bone circles. Two in between the geometric designs and one on each tip.

Will look something like this, but bone not Mother of Pearl.

paulO - 8-28-2007 at 03:42 PM

Jameel..what beautiful work ! Can't wait to hear it !! Mike, this must be pretty exciting for you !!

Take care,

Paul

Cyberquills - 8-28-2007 at 04:23 PM

Jameel!

I am more impressed with your skills all the time!! Well done and thank you for sharing.

Cheerio

CQ

Mike - 8-29-2007 at 08:48 AM

I am beyond excited about this oud Paul. Jameel is done with a lot of the inlay for the soundboard and should be getting started on that part of the project soon. Keep an eye out for an update.
mike

We got another update...

Mike - 9-2-2007 at 08:03 PM

I was telling Jameel how when the weekend comes up I am fiending new pictures of his progress on the oud. I know how he works on the oud during the weekend, and he's been great about getting me pictures of his progress. Told him I feel like a crack addict waiting for my next picture fix.

Anywaysss...some progress on the inlays and on the pegbox. Here we go...

Here's the progress on the pegbox.

Jameel also got pretty much all of the inlay that's going on the soundboard done too. After multiple pictures sent back and forth, here's what we've decided to go with. The big decision was what the design for the bottom inlay would be. Anyway, these are just laid on top of his #2 oud, but you get a pretty good idea about how the oud is going to look like after it is all said and done. Compare it to the first picture in this thread. You can see the inspiration.

Here is what we decided to go with.

oudplayer - 9-2-2007 at 08:39 PM

Hey mike

wowiiiiiiiiiiiii this looks sick , its mad hot if you kwnow hat i mean . great work jameel really great work . i love how everythign meshs well it all blends in > :xtreme:

thx sammy

TruePharaoh21 - 9-2-2007 at 08:43 PM

I will now do my impression of a 4 year old stuck at home on a summer day.

*ahem ahem* I want to play!

Thank you.

Jarvil - 9-5-2007 at 10:50 AM

I don't like the inlay on either side of the small sound holes. Out of balance and character with the rest.

Jonathan - 9-5-2007 at 11:51 AM

OK, Mike, I'm comparing it with the first picture in the thread--the Nahat. Yeah, I see the inspiration. But, if I am going to be honest, Jameel's looks a heck of a lot better than the Nahat!
Beautiful, Jameel.
When you were making your first oud, i was amazed at your craftsmanship. Now, I am amazed at your artistry.
Congrats to you both.

mavrothis - 9-7-2007 at 11:04 AM

Absolutely gorgeous Jameel! Thank you for this beautiful piece of art!

Alf Mabrouk Mike!

Take care,

mavrothis

Dr. Oud - 9-7-2007 at 02:19 PM

Quote:

....This dovetail joint is going to be super strong. Much better than the old school dowel joint used in the past...

No doubt the dovetail is stronger. The thing is, how do you re-set the neck when the body bends up over time from the string pressure? (and it will). The oud is not built with anywhere the structure of guitars for example, and they still need neck resets. I've gone back to the "old school dowel" for this reason - it's repairable. How strong does it need to be anyway? Strong enough to withstand the string pressure I say. If you're attempting to resist accidental damage, you may just transfer the stress elsewhere and the damage may be more difficult to repair. I'M sure the old masters knew about dovetail joints, I believe they just wanted to keep the neck repairable. - That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
btw - nice work, Jameel

Jameel - 9-7-2007 at 05:24 PM

Thanks Jonathan and Mav. Just copying the Nahats here. I wish I had come up with these designs.

Doc O,

You've got a point there. I think both joints have their pluses and minuses, but your comment about repair and resetting is interesting. Have you read Lundberg's book? I'm really interested in trying his butt-joint and screw method for joining the neck. I know we all frown on using metal in the oud, but all the old lutes had this same joint, using a large nail instead of a screw. I would venture to guess that lutes from the 16th c back reflect more historically with the ancient oud than any modern instrument, especially since we don't have any ouds even approaching the antiquity of many extant lutes. I was imagining resetting an oud neck built to Lundberg's specs. Drop the rose, reach inside and remove the screw, pop the neck joint loose with a sharp rap from a mallet. Shave a little here and there, reglue and screw, reglue the rose, done. No sawing, no doweling. And most importantly, almost zero, or zero shortening of the neck. Working from inside, one could also remove the top from the inside out with a hot thin knife and if done carefully, retain the edge tiles. Speaking of which, what a great argument for lute-style half-binding. Karybian used a similar technique, only he used a ramped rebate so none of the edge of the soundboard showed (it tapered to 0 by the time it reached the edge). That is really slick. And it makes removing the top a snap since the soundboard goes all the way out to the edge of the bowl. But doing this perfectly is a huge challenge, and not one I think I'm up to yet. So Doc, have you ever tried doing a lute-style neck joint with screw?

Dr. Oud - 9-10-2007 at 12:20 PM

I haven't tried a bolt/screw-on neck - yet. but I'm repairing on one now. I haven't srtung it up but have found one problem - the screw alignment gets in the way when the angle of the nedck is changed, so as it tightenes down the neck it tries to align to the original angle. I think the clearance hole in the block neesd to be slotted a bit to allow for the new angle, we'll see when I try that. a flat washer should provide enough support across the slot. No, I haven't read Lundberg.

Ararat66 - 9-10-2007 at 01:52 PM

Hi Jameel

Great work - you could always create a pinned tenon joint (as you see in timber framed buildings). If you need to reset the neck you just need to knock the pins out after removing the collar between neck and body. I've seen this in a luthiers handbook I have somewhere.

Leon

Fazhu - 9-10-2007 at 06:40 PM

Jameel, Tommy Coleman here, from MIMF. Since the topic of the neck joint is up, what is the purpose of the neck standoff over the headblock? To keep the belly and fingerboard on the same plane? Or had you just not planed it down yet?

Fazhu - 9-10-2007 at 07:11 PM

Jameel, I don't remember which oud project of yours it was, but I remember you talking about mold flats and that your future oud mold would have flats. Is that the case with this one? If you have a pic of your mold would you post it? Thanks.

Jameel - 9-11-2007 at 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ararat66
Hi Jameel

Great work - you could always create a pinned tenon joint (as you see in timber framed buildings). If you need to reset the neck you just need to knock the pins out after removing the collar between neck and body. I've seen this in a luthiers handbook I have somewhere.

Leon

That's an interesting idea Leon. I think there are numerous ways of doing it, finding the slickest is the challenge.

Quote:

Originally posted by Fazhu
Jameel, Tommy Coleman here, from MIMF. Since the topic of the neck joint is up, what is the purpose of the neck standoff over the headblock? To keep the belly and fingerboard on the same plane? Or had you just not planed it down yet?

Welcome Tommy. You guessed it, I just hadn't planed it flush yet. I always start with an oversize neck blank to allow for adjustment after the joining.

Quote:

Originally posted by Fazhu
Jameel, I don't remember which oud project of yours it was, but I remember you talking about mold flats and that your future oud mold would have flats. Is that the case with this one? If you have a pic of your mold would you post it? Thanks.

Check the earlier pages in this thread. There are some pics of the mold. I didn't do the flats. I like the idea of flats, but they seem restrictive. I mean, if you end up with a rib that is tight to the mould, and a little too narrow, how does the next one meet with it? It doesn't. Moulds with flats are great for making a very precise bowl, but they don't allow any room for even small error. I'm not that good at bowls yet, so I'll stick to a round mould, which also has it's disadvatages. I guess I'd have to try one with flats eventually.

Mike - 9-16-2007 at 09:46 AM

The pegbox is almost done.

Looking good, eh?

Mike - 9-19-2007 at 07:03 AM

Another pegbox update. I asked Jameelo to make a pyramid tip for the pegbox. Hey, I'm Egyptian! Also, we are gonna do some binding along the top of the pegbox. Almost done.

SamirCanada - 9-19-2007 at 07:07 AM

Nice!!!
thats gona look good

TruePharaoh21 - 9-19-2007 at 01:53 PM

Hey guys,

Jameelo... you know already how much I admire your work, and this continues to grow. This is a piece of art.

I have one question... I'm a bit confused: how is it that the pegbox wasn't completed, but the strings were put onto the oud in that picture up above?

Mike... you're a lucky man.

Peter

Mike - 9-19-2007 at 10:56 PM

Hey TP,

Thanks buddy. Yeah, I am pretty lucky. The picture above is Jameel's number 2 oud. The one he brought with him last summer. He just laid the additional inlays on top to give me an idea of the overall look. Remember, we're going with square inlays around the soundholes.

Take care,
Mike

Michaell - 9-20-2007 at 04:10 PM

This is really unbelievably beautiful by any standards, but, for only your second oud-wow!

Update

Mike - 10-7-2007 at 11:06 AM

After a big fight with Mr. Abraham...I told him he can take his oud and shove it! :mad:

JUST KIDDING.

Here's the finished pegbox. These pictures were taken before softening the edges and shaping the inside of the pegbox, but you can see how killer it turned out. Notice the shape of the pegs. Pretty authentic looking.

Mike - 10-7-2007 at 11:26 AM

Jameel had also done some work on the soundboard. He sent me these shots last weekend, but I was out of town. Should have updated the thread when I got back, but didn't have a chance to.

Here are some shots of the tiles inlaid around the soundholes. He put the roses in place and also the other inlays that will be put in so I could get a sneak peek of how it will look when done.

MatthewW - 10-7-2007 at 01:36 PM

beautiful work. what string length did you have this oud made to? :applause:

Mike - 10-8-2007 at 06:33 AM

Hey Matthew,
The scale length will be 61.5 for this bad boy.
Mike

amtaha - 10-8-2007 at 06:45 AM

Now, the finishing of the pegs' ends tell it all.

Beautiful. Just beautiful.

Regards,
Hamid

Jameel - 10-8-2007 at 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike
After a big fight with Mr. Abraham...I told him he can take his oud and shove it! :mad:

Care to take this outside, Mr. Malek?

MatthewW - 10-8-2007 at 07:33 AM

err, you wouldn't also do circumcisions by any chance would you Jameel? :rolleyes:

paulO - 10-8-2007 at 09:59 AM

Hey man, this is an oud forum...if you're looking to get other kinds of trimwork done, start another thread at least !!

SamirCanada - 10-9-2007 at 08:28 AM

Hey Jameel... where you that guy in the ''Beat it'' video of Micheal Jackson?

Jesse Frank - 10-9-2007 at 12:29 PM

Wow, that is turning out great! All of your ouds are outstanding!

abusin - 10-10-2007 at 03:56 AM

Hi Jameel & Mike,

Jameel carefull with that blade, we do know what you can do on wood so please hands off people, Mike you better keep him happy man, at least untill you get your oud

Jameel God bless your creative hands, this oud is turning out to be another gem in your crown, man I adore those pegs (are they available for sale by any chance :cool

best regards

Awad

Jameel - 10-10-2007 at 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SamirCanada
Hey Jameel... where you that guy in the ''Beat it'' video of Micheal Jackson?

More likely the "eat it " video by Wierd Al!

)

Awad, I will have some of these pegs for sale soon. I'll make an announcement when I do.

Mike - 11-25-2007 at 07:28 PM

After a short hiatus to renovate his workshop and make music videos, Jameelo is back at working on my oud. Here are a few shots, more to come soon.

SamirCanada - 11-25-2007 at 08:56 PM

Nayce!

way to go jameel... nice inlays.

what did you use to remove the face material? Dremel router attachement?

Jameel - 11-25-2007 at 09:03 PM

Mike - 11-26-2007 at 09:03 PM

The soundboard inlays are in and flush. Looking good...

mavrothis - 11-26-2007 at 09:21 PM

GORGEOUS!!!

Cyberquills - 11-26-2007 at 11:24 PM

Incredible work! Ladz we are watching the BEGINNING of something here...that is special.

CQ

spyros mesogeia - 12-9-2007 at 06:36 AM

very beautifull
Congratulations Jameel
you are an artist man
Regards

Soundholes cut...

Mike - 12-9-2007 at 02:23 PM

Here's the latest update...

SamirCanada - 12-9-2007 at 02:30 PM

NICE!!
Jameel your getting much faster all things concidered.
Bravo.
keep them comming !!

Oud Freak - 12-10-2007 at 07:55 AM

WOW that's a real beauty!

Brian Prunka - 12-11-2007 at 07:44 AM

looks amazing jameel . . . i hope i get to see it in person.

Oud Freak - 12-11-2007 at 01:52 PM

I am used to criticize defects (major and minor) in the oud esthetics and finishing. I have been blamed by some of the users for doing so. Most of them accused the pics resolutions and lighting. I replied that I don't tolerate such defects on ouds saying that a oud has to be the most perfect possible from the inside and the outside. I also said that a small defect on a violin is not tolerated, then why should it be tolerated on a oud.

Well now, it is the extreme opposite.

This piece of art made by J. Khalaf is really an amazing beauty. Such a perfect craftmanship. The bracing is also so neat, so clear, so beautiful to look at. The inside strips between the ribs are also really well done.

Wish all ouds on earth were close to this one in the perfection of the detail.

Congratulations Mr. Jameel and Mike. Ya hek oud ya bala!

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