Mike's Oud Forums

Difference Saz - Buzuk ?

fartso - 8-18-2007 at 06:02 AM

What`s the difference between a saz and a buzuk ?I know a Saz has 7 Strings a buzuk 6 or 8 ,but is there a difference how they are "fretted" and tuned ?

rebetostar - 8-18-2007 at 08:42 PM

The frets on the saz are generally tied-on and hence moveable.. I've never really seen a buzuk but I've seen lots of bouzoukis, and the frets on them are permanently installed.
Also there are lots of possible tunings, but I think the most common for a trichordo is Dd, aa, dd, and for a tetrachord is Cc,Ff,aa,dd
Hopefully that helps!

Melbourne - 8-19-2007 at 12:09 AM

Buzuk is the Levant version of the bouzouki I guess.... you can also describe it as a cross breed between bouzouki and saz. Also if you go back to the late nineteenth century, you will find that the greek bouzouki was a lot more like the saz, however as it developed it took more of a western path and began to look more like a mandolin, hence the fixed frets, and mechanical machine heads, infact early trichordos started as mandolin and were converted. On the other hand however, the arabic buzuk developed somwhat differently, while it kept the movable frets, it adopeted mechanical machine heads...

Like anything in history, it is never a straight forward clean process of how such things evolve, rather, always complex and cross referenced. It can be concluded, that bouzouki and buzuk, both were the one instrument in the past, commonly referred to as tambouras, tambur etc; cousin to the saz...

To furhter complicate things, there is still in greece today an instrument called tambouras, as there is also in some parts of persia and the middle east. This is my personal conclusion based on pictures I've seen and recordings I've heard and books I've read....other peple will of course have a different view; neither will be right or wrong but again an observation :)

fartso - 8-19-2007 at 05:33 AM

Thanks for the replies !For me the "fretting" of an saz and a buzuk looks very similar (according to pictures and the saz i owned).Perhaps they are both some sort of predecessor of an bouzouki (which is permanently and diatonic fretted ).

Greg - 8-19-2007 at 05:54 AM

I have attached a photo of a buzuk from the "current production" section of Nazih Ghadban's website http://www.oudnazihghadban.com/users/current.asp

It appears to have more in common with the saz than the bouzouki, including what appear to be tied frets.
Mr Ghadban makes many of these instruments and I feel sure would be happy to give you more detail on tuning etc. His email address is info@oudnazihghadban.com


Regards,

Greg

fartso - 8-19-2007 at 06:19 AM

I know this Red Buzuk ,it`s a real beauty,unfortunately it`s in a priceclass i can not afford (I know good work demands a good price and the instruments of Mr. Ghadban are their price worth).At the moment I´m looking for a saz or a buzuk to bring a new voice to my music.If someones interested look at http://www.myspace.com/drfartso

Thanks for the answers

Greets to all

fartso

zoukboy - 8-21-2007 at 10:53 AM

My buzuq by Samir Azar (bowl by Najarian) has 18 tied-on frets to the octave, for a total of 29.

oudplayer - 8-21-2007 at 03:05 PM

hey man

nice bazuk i really wanna get one , one of these days
can we hear how yrs sounds??////
]thx sammy

SamirCanada - 8-21-2007 at 06:57 PM

In the orchestra I play in we have a musician who plays the saz like a buzuq.
It has a softer sound because there is no soundhole in front but with a pick-up it sounds quite nice.

Franck - 8-21-2007 at 09:26 PM

Hi fartso,

The term buzuk comes from the irregular cavalery of the Ottoman Empire that were called bachi buzuk wich means burnt head. The instrument was easy to carry along the road hence the name buzuk and it is beleived to derive from the saz.

Of course this info is one many versions of the organology concerning the buzuq and the saz, it is difficult to be absolutely sure of any version. The shape of the buzuq resembles that of the saz and there are many tuning systems possible.

Hope that helps you,

François Rainville
musician and lute maker

zoukboy - 8-22-2007 at 03:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Franck
Hi fartso,

The term buzuk comes from the irregular cavalery of the Ottoman Empire that were called bachi buzuk wich means burnt head. The instrument was easy to carry along the road hence the name buzuk and it is beleived to derive from the saz.

Of course this info is one many versions of the organology concerning the buzuq and the saz, it is difficult to be absolutely sure of any version. The shape of the buzuq resembles that of the saz and there are many tuning systems possible.


the version I know of is that it derives, like "bouzouki", from "buzuk düzen" or "broken tuning".

shareen - 9-2-2007 at 06:28 PM

I am currently looking for a buzuk. What is the price range of the one in the picture above and how can I get one??

zoukboy - 9-2-2007 at 07:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shareen
I am currently looking for a buzuk. What is the price range of the one in the picture above and how can I get one??


Get in touch with Samir Azar: http://www.samir-oud.com/

He is a wonderful builder and a great person.
--
Roger Landes
rwlandes@taosnet.com
Website: http://rogerlandes.com
Bouzouki duo CD: http://janissarystomp.com
ZoukFest World Music Camp, June 8-14th, 2008: http://zoukfest.com

abc123xyz - 9-3-2007 at 06:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoukboy
Quote:
Originally posted by Franck
Hi fartso,

The term buzuk comes from the irregular cavalery of the Ottoman Empire that were called bachi buzuk wich means burnt head. The instrument was easy to carry along the road hence the name buzuk and it is beleived to derive from the saz.

Of course this info is one many versions of the organology concerning the buzuq and the saz, it is difficult to be absolutely sure of any version. The shape of the buzuq resembles that of the saz and there are many tuning systems possible.


the version I know of is that it derives, like "bouzouki", from "buzuk düzen" or "broken tuning".

"Buzuk" is from the Turkish "buzurk" which in turn comes from the Persian "tanbūr-e bozorg", meaning "large tanbur".

Apparently it was, at least in the place and at the time of its invention, the largest member of the tanbur family in use.

David

zoukboy - 9-6-2007 at 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by abc123xyz
"Buzuk" is from the Turkish "buzurk" which in turn comes from the Persian "tanbūr-e bozorg", meaning "large tanbur".

Apparently it was, at least in the place and at the time of its invention, the largest member of the tanbur family in use.

David


David, if you don't mind my asking, what is your source for that info?

Roger Landes

abc123xyz - 9-7-2007 at 08:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoukboy

David, if you don't mind my asking, what is your source for that info?

I've come it across it several times browsing the the ethnomusicological literature, but am afraid I can't remember all of the sources offhand.

I did look through some of my books today, however, and was able to locate in Sybil Marcuse's Musical Instruments - A Comprehensive Dictionary entries for tanbūr buzuk, buzuk, and bouzouki, for the etymologies of which is given the Turkish word buzurk, but without mention of the Persian source of the word.

I was also able to locate specific mention of the tanbūr-e bozorg in James Sadler Hamilton's Sitar Music in Calcutta - An Ethnomusicological Study, but again without further elaboration on the etymology.

The ethnomusicologist H. G. Farmer is supposed to have elaborated on it, as well as Laurence Picken in his Folk Musical Instruments of Turkey, but I don't have a copy on hand to check for sure. In fact I'd like to have a copy of my own of this book, should anyone happen to know where I might get one.

David

zoukboy - 9-8-2007 at 11:45 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by abc123xyz

I've come it across it several times browsing the the ethnomusicological literature, but am afraid I can't remember all of the sources offhand.

I did look through some of my books today, however, and was able to locate in Sybil Marcuse's Musical Instruments - A Comprehensive Dictionary entries for tanbūr buzuk, buzuk, and bouzouki, for the etymologies of which is given the Turkish word buzurk, but without mention of the Persian source of the word.

I was also able to locate specific mention of the tanbūr-e bozorg in James Sadler Hamilton's Sitar Music in Calcutta - An Ethnomusicological Study, but again without further elaboration on the etymology.

The ethnomusicologist H. G. Farmer is supposed to have elaborated on it, as well as Laurence Picken in his Folk Musical Instruments of Turkey, but I don't have a copy on hand to check for sure. In fact I'd like to have a copy of my own of this book, should anyone happen to know where I might get one.


Check out:

Risto Pekka Pennanen, "Westernisation and Modernisation in Greek Popular Music", University of Tampere, Finland 1999, pp.121-137.

He gives the etymology for "buzok düzen" and since these words directly relate to the instrument it seems much more likely to be the source of the name.

Roger

michoud - 9-8-2007 at 11:46 AM

Hi all!!
I have a beautiful Samir Azar buzok.
I´m looking for traditional mid east buzok music and oud and buzok duo music, but I don´t found it...
Can anybody help me???

shareen - 9-8-2007 at 01:13 PM

There is a beautiful CD with Dr. Jihad Racy and Simon Shaheen featuring the music of Muhammed Wahab. Dr. Racy is playing bouzuk and Simon Shaheen, the oud. Maybe you can get the score(s) from Dr. Racy who is the head of the ethnomusicology department at UCLA. :)

calinburloiu - 5-15-2014 at 08:05 PM

Hello! I am planning to buy a Nazih Ghadban buzuk. Do you happen to know their tuning? From the videos they appear to have 2 courses and 6 pegs. Is it possible to tune it with 3 courses?

Alan-TX - 5-23-2014 at 09:07 AM

2 Course Buzuq is usually tuned Gg CC

You would need to ask Mr. Ghadban if you can use 3 courses on his Buzuq. I have a 3 course Buzuq made by Samir Azar that I tune.

Cc GG CC

There are no rules just what is common. You could use any tuning you like as long as the instrument can handle the string tension.

Dd GG CC

or Aa DD

Jody Stecher - 5-23-2014 at 10:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by calinburloiu  
Hello! I am planning to buy a Nazih Ghadban buzuk. Do you happen to know their tuning? From the videos they appear to have 2 courses and 6 pegs. Is it possible to tune it with 3 courses?


Yes 3 courses of the right gauge string is fine. I have a Nazih Ghadban buzuk and it can be strung with 2 courses or 3. I think you can ask Nazih Ghadban any questions about his buzuks and he will reply with the information you need. The tuning is as you wish. The buzuk will probably be strung for tuning the octave course to G and the unison course to C, a fourth above. If you want to tune lower or higher you might want heavier or lighter strings but a step low still will sound good without changing strings and of course less tension is always safe.