Jonathan - 8-22-2007 at 06:42 AM
I have a bunch of unfinished oud projects, and I swore I wasn't going to post any shots of new projects until I had some completed, but I like the
way this is turning out.
Pink Ivory, and Mulberry wood. Cool, huh? I used ebony for the mihrab shape at the bottom.
Pink Ivory is a hard wood from Africa. It hasn't been dyed--that is it's natural color, which is pretty amazing to me.
Not really sanded down very much, just some basics and some mineral spirits. That pink ivory will really gloss up and get watermelon red by the end
of this.
Not very traditional, and I know some of you traditionalists may hate it, but I really like it.
OK, I love it.
Jonathan - 8-22-2007 at 06:47 AM
.
Peyman - 8-22-2007 at 07:31 AM
Hey Jonathan,
Neat project. The contrast is very nice. Just curious, is that American Mulberry?
abusin - 8-22-2007 at 07:32 AM
Hi Johnathan,
I've never heared or seen a pink ivory wood before, but hey man it looks amazing and I don't think any one has seen it in ouds.
the colour is just outstanding next to the Mulberry wood. Keep us posted please its been a while since your last project.
best of luck
Jonathan - 8-22-2007 at 07:53 AM
Thanks guys.
Abusin, I hadn't heard of it either until about a year ago. I saw it on Gilmer Woods web site. This batch is from Zimbabwe. Pink Ivory was the
royal wood of the Zulus--only the royal family was allowed to own it. Seriously, I am not making this stuff up. You can get small pieces of it for
pen blanks and other small work, but it is really hard to get pieces long enough for an oud without breaking the bank.
Yes, Peyman, it is American Mulberry. I have an old Turkish oud that also has mulberry, but essentially no figure at all--just a cool, mellow yellow,
which I always liked.
This mulberry has that same yellow color, and it does work well with the pink ivory. But, there is a quite a bit more figure to this mulberry.
The mulberry was incredibly easy to work with. Very easy to sand, and it held its shape very well when bent. I guess that it is the most important
thing to me. Some woods, like mahogany, seem (in my very limited experience) to have more spring back, and you have to keep fine tuning the wood to
keep the curve when the rib is bent. Not so with the mulberry--once bent, it stayed bent and there was no need for further adjustment. Maple seems
to behave similarly.
I didn't expect to see the figure in the pink ivory, but there is some popping up now that I have started sanding it. You can see it in the second
picture.
oudplayer - 8-22-2007 at 08:01 AM
hey jon
nice work i liek alot man nice colors and all they go well, however i would love to see a bowl just of pink ivory that would look hot lol 
btw what r u ganna use for the face?
thx sammy
Jonathan - 8-22-2007 at 08:20 AM
Thanks. Me too, but it would just be too expensive. And too heavy.
The face is going to be very, very simple--I don't want to detract from the bowl. Three rosettes with simple line purfling around them, and a simple
ebony band around the face.
paulO - 8-22-2007 at 03:56 PM
Hi Johnathan,
Wild and wacky dude, can't wait to see it with some varnish on it, actually can't wait to hear it !!
Cheers..Paul
Jameel - 8-22-2007 at 06:11 PM
Very nice, Jonathan.
Yeah, pink ivory is really hard and heavy. How thick are the ribs? How was it to bend? I know that some modern lute makers use 1mm thick ribs when
working with dense woods like ebony and rosewood. I'm not brave enough yet to go that thin, but I'm guessing pink ivory would fall in that category.
You have more courage than me my friend. For now I'll stick to the basics. I'm sure pink ivory makes walnut seem like cardboard....whew!
Jonathan - 8-23-2007 at 04:51 AM
Thanks guys--
Jameel, I initially cut them to 3/32 of an inch, which is kind of a thin starting point for me. Of course, now that I am sanding, they have gotten
thinner than that. I don't know where it will end up, but I am guessing that the final rib thickness will still be between 2 and 3 mm. I know of a
really great out maker who told me that his ribs are not thicker than 1.5 mm when he is done. I can't do that--the glue joint would be even less, and
my skills are not good enough to assure me that the joints would hold when they are that thin.
I apprciate the kind words but, really, it is not courage. It's just that I seem to have more luck with the super dense woods than the softer stuff.
Like I mentioned before, the most important thing to me is that the rib maintains its shape after I bend it. The super hard woods seem to do this
better for me. Maple. Pink Ivory. Even ebony. With the wood bending approach that we are both using, bending is not really a problem any more. It
might take another minute or so to get it to conform to the mold, but once you are there, that's it. I just went full blast, high heat--no
rheostat.
The miserable part is cutting the wood into blanks. Yup, that part is bad!
My concern was that the glue joints would not hold because the wood is so dense, but that was not a problem.
Honestly, not hard.
That being said, I have a couple of left over blanks of pink ivory, so if you want to see for yourself, I can easily send them to you so you can see
for yourself.
I wish, though, that I had a good pair of calipers to measure the rib thickness of the glue joints. It's easy enough to measure the thickness of the
ribs at the outside portion of the bowl, but I really don't know how to measure the glue joint at the inner ribs. I know that there are calipers out
there, but they don't seem like they would do a good job measuring that glue joint. For now, I am eyeballing it, and just feeling with my fingers to
make sure I am not getting too close.
Mike - 8-23-2007 at 06:12 AM
Cool project JV. You are becoming a bowl making machine! Looking forward to watching this one develop buddy!
Peyman - 8-23-2007 at 06:39 AM
Jonathan,
Just a curious, where did you get the mulberry? I haven't been able to find pieces that are good enough for instruments.
That ebony cap is nice too. I dig the shape and the detail around it.
carpenter - 8-23-2007 at 08:39 AM
Impressive! It might be my eyes or my monitor, but it looks like the Ivory is sitting on top of the mulberry, a nice 3-D illusion with the red coming
forward and the yellow receding ... I like it a lot. What's the plan for the neck and pegbox, color-wise?
Cyberquills - 8-24-2007 at 01:35 AM
The colour combinations are quite stunning Jonathan. Well done!
CQ
Lintfree - 8-24-2007 at 02:50 AM
Looks fantastic. Kind of Chinese looking color scheme. There are some guitar makers in the US that are using pink ivory and man, is it expensive!
There are some guitar makers using pink ivory and say that it sounds really good. Very cool project. Love the Zulu connection. Can't wait to hear it.
Ronny Andersson - 8-24-2007 at 11:29 AM
Beautiful bowl with a classic tail piece design. I wish more oud makers dare to try less common materials for bowls. Check out Barber and Harris where
you can see a lute entirely made of pink ivory http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat01.htm
Jonathan - 8-25-2007 at 07:06 AM
Thanks everybody. Yeah, Mike--Making the bowl has gotten a lot easier. It's everything after that part that I am struggling with.
Peyman--I have to correct myself. I was pretty sure that it was American mulberry, but now I am looking for my receipt on it and I can't find it.
So, I am not certain as to its origin. I do know, though, that I bought it from Gilmer Woods. gilmerwood.com I really like that place, although I
just checked and they don't have quite as much mulberry in stock as I have seen in the past. They have a ton of stuff, though, and I just love
looking at it all.
Carpenter, here is the plan: The neck is going to just be bands of pink ivory and mulberry running vertically with the purfling--typical oud style.
For the peg box, I want to make the side walls out of maple, and the back of the box a simple strip of the pink ivory. I am going to use ebony pegs.
This time around, though, I would like to either inlay a little purfling on the side walls, or else put a ban of pink ivory on the top of them. Not
exactly sure how to do it. I know a router comes in there somewhere, but, if I haven't already said it a million times, woodworking is pretty new to
me.
Daryl--nobody believes the Zulu thing when I tell them, but it is kind of a cool story.
Ronny--thanks. I really like the mihrab on the bottom. You can't see it too well, but there is a thin strip of black/white/black purfling all around
it, which sets it off nicely. And, the whole spiritual implications of the shape, and its placement on the oud, seemed appropriate. The other thing
I like about it, though, is that it fools the eye. If I put a circle there, any imperfections would be more readily apparent. If one rib was a mm or
two thicker than another, then you would see it. But, with the lines on the mihrab, any little discrepency is obscured. When my skills are improved,
I may go to the circle, although, admittedly, I do like this shape a lot. I have an oud that my grandfather built in the 1930s--all of the ribs end
at one point. No cap, no inlay, nothing. I'll put a pic of it below. That is going to be my eventual goal. There are fewer ribs on that oud but,
still, it is a tough thing to obtain.
Thanks for the link, as well. Beautiful lutes. I wish the pink ivory in the one lute was a little pinker. Could be my monitor. The purple heart is
stunning. I actually have some purple heart, but haven't used it for a couple of reasons. First, I read that it turns a dark brown. If it is
brown/purple like the lute shown, that would be amazing. But, if it is just plain ol' brown, then I would rather use something easier. Second, it
doesn't seem to mix well aesthetically with any other wood that I can think of. But the answer, which I didn't even think of, is to make the whole
bowl out of purpleheart, like the lute shown. Amazing look, but I do wonder if it would get a bit too heavy. If you happen to have a suggestion as
to what would look good with purpleheart, let me know. I hate to say it, but all I can come up with is pink ivory, and ebony. Either way, it would
just be too heavy. And I want to try different woods with each bowl I make, just so I can learn more about working with them.
Thanks again to everybody. I won't be able to do any more work on it for another month, but then I'll post something up on the board.
Peyman - 8-26-2007 at 07:05 PM
Thanks! I didn't know they carried mulberry, plus all the other exotic stuff.
Jonathan - 10-26-2008 at 08:21 AM
This one is going mighty slow.
SamirCanada - 10-26-2008 at 07:24 PM
Nice to see your still at it Jonathan!
keep it up!!
GeorgeK - 10-27-2008 at 06:19 AM
Very nice bowl...I love that pink Ivory!
How do you plan on bracing the face? Is it a state secret or can you share the brace pattern/shapes?
PS - I'm glad you picked this up again, this will be one unique Oud!
paulO - 10-27-2008 at 06:21 AM
Dude -- slow progress is still progress; thanks for posting and I'm looking forward to the next update -- patiently ! I like the matching bridge !!
Regards..Paul
Clayton - 10-27-2008 at 08:40 PM
Jonathan,
Nice job on that bowl....
That pink ivory must have been really challenging to bend and fit... That is stunning work!
-Clayton
Jonathan - 10-28-2008 at 11:02 PM
Thanks, guys. A lot.
GeorgeK--I have no secrets. I'm really new at this. The most beautiful sounding oud I ever heard was a 1905 Manol--pure magic. I am grateful to
have a picture of the bracing of that oud (thanks Hank Levin), and I am patterning my bracing after it. I have enclosed the photo below.
Paul--Dang. Good eye. There's a thin strip of pink ivory down the middle of that bridge--very thin (almost a veneer), so that the bridge doesn't get
weighed down. The rest of the bridge is mahogany, but is resting on a base of mulberry. I might change that so that the whole thing is mahogany
except for that thin strip of ivory--not sure yet. But, I do like the idea of tying in the woods from the bowl into the face. At 12 o'clock on the
central rosette, I have inlaid a very thin veneer of pink ivory. This is the fourth oud face that I have made, and the last three have followed the
same pattern--single ring of line purfling around the small rosettes, and two rings of line purfling around the large rosette, with a trapezoid of
inlaid material at 12o'clock connecting the two rings. I like that look, and I think I am going to keep that as sort of a signature look for me.
Clayton--It was a lot easier than you would think. It might take a while to bend the wood, but once it's bent, it stays bent. I like that. Unlike
mahogany, for example, which seems to want to spring out of its bent shape. I wish I had put some mineral spirits on the bowl and neck so you could
see the colors a bit better. I'm toying with different options for the finish. I absolutely love shellac, but I think the slight amber cast that it
gives wood might dull down that incredible watermelon red of the pink ivory. TruOil is an option. I think, though, that I will probably end up using
polyurethane this time around.
Jonathan - 12-4-2008 at 07:11 AM
Face and peg box now in place.
Let's see--finish neck, bridge, nut, pegs, shellac. . .
December 31 is the goal.
Jonathan - 12-4-2008 at 07:12 AM
I've got a bunch of other oud projects in various stages of completion, but I really like the look of this one the best.
In the background, I have started an oud using Dr. Oud's "open" concept. In the past, I have always used the traditional oud mould.
Jonathan - 12-30-2008 at 11:28 AM
Done.
Sounds great. Sound sample as soon as the strings settle in, but I am really happy with the sound.
Jonathan - 12-30-2008 at 11:29 AM
.
Jonathan - 12-30-2008 at 11:32 AM
I just put 3 coats of shellac on this one (the shellac is dry in the photo). With the last oud, I think I put on 15 or 20. truthfully, I don't see
the point of going any further, because I really like how it looks right now.
Also, in the past, I have gone over each coat (including the last one) with 0000 steel wool--it gave it a satin finish after the final going-over.
While I like that look, I think I'm going to keep this one just as it is--shiny and wet-looking.
Ronny Andersson - 12-30-2008 at 12:45 PM
Finally Jonathan, nice to see some updates on this fantastic looking oud.
Jonathan - 12-30-2008 at 04:03 PM
Thanks, Ronny.
Youtube video quality doesn't really do it justice, but here goes:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-DXdXLgp_WY
Jameel - 12-30-2008 at 04:25 PM
Great oud and video Jonathan! Congrats on finishing up #3.
But I was hoping to see you pick up the oud and play us something at the end! Come on! Let's hear it. 
Jonathan - 12-30-2008 at 04:29 PM
Jeez, I can barely play. But, tomorrow.
Thanks
oudplayer - 12-30-2008 at 05:38 PM
hey john
omg dude you rock that was amazing. even if you cant play which i am sure its better then you think i gotta hear it bud. shesh i showed my father yr
oud and he said just by looking at it its made well . hes a wood carpenter and makes stuff all the time but no ouds for him lol.
please sound and i cant wait to hear it .
thx sammy
theodoropoulos - 12-31-2008 at 12:50 AM
hi!!
i see that the bridge is from 2 parts,mullbery and pink ivory.i had done something similar from 2 pieces,but they were not glued well,and it broke in
2 pieces and i had a terrible experiece of ungluing the bridge from the soundboard to glue a new...
so be sure thet the bridge is 100% good...
the oud very very good
congrats!!
Jonathan - 12-31-2008 at 04:04 AM
Thanks. The bridge is 100%. I haven't had the problem you mentioned. I actually have an old Atikyan oud from the 1930s, and the bridge is made up
of a zillion pieces, and it still is perfect.
Working on a sound sample, but it might have to wait a few days, when I can get my recorder back--the computer mic just stinks.
SamirCanada - 12-31-2008 at 08:33 AM
thats really really nice Jonathan.
great work.
you must be thrilled!
Jonathan - 2-4-2009 at 03:28 PM
A super quick sound sample. My playing is pretty rough, but at least you get an idea of how it sounds. The bass notes sound a little boomy in the
video, but I don't hear it live--could be the cheap computer mic. But, I am really quite happy with the sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSkkTP8l6ko
paulO - 2-4-2009 at 05:05 PM
Hi Jonathan,
It sounds really good, very sweet sounding treble ! No wonder you're happy with the sound ! Can't wait to hear number 4 !
Best regards,
Paul