Saz

I really should hold myself back from replying because I am going to sound like an old grump, but this does get into my particular area of interest for me ... so apologies up front

This video demonstrates a trend that has become quite prevelent in Turkey recently (last 2 or 3 years) notably by people such as Cem Çelebi. That is, some sort of technique competition. There are a lot of young guys playing as fast as they can, using chording technique and (inevitably) some şelpe (finger style) playing. Which is all well and good of course - there is everything to be gained from developing technique. My gripe is that it does not necessarıly make for good rate "music". And now they tend to put on stage and screen any young player that can make a fist of this stuff.

Take şelpe style for instance. This was developed into a virtuosic style by the late Hasret Gültekin and Arif Şağ (and later Erdal Erzincan and Erol Parlak) in the early 1990s derived from traditional playing styles as can be heard in recording of, for example, Nesimi Çimen (who like the aforementioned Hasret was murdered in Sivas). If you listen to Sağ playing for example his composition Direniş you will hear how virtuoso technique serves the music rather than being showy for showy's sake. At the Pir Sultan Abdal festival last year there were a couple of (well known) players (no names!) who played like this Ceyhan character and mostly bored the audience who were much more engaged with the likes of Tolga Sağ, Erdal and Mercan Erzincan, Dertli Divani or genuine local performers like İsmail Şimşek. The challenge for real musicianship is to develop technique and use it to serve the music not to express how fancy your playing is.

Without in the least wishing to NOT acknowledge the technical ability of someone like Ceyhan, my view is that musically this is nonsense.

Apologies for the sermon, but it hits a nerve with someone who has been closely following Turkish bağlama playing (and Alevi music in particular) for 20 years! It's hard to not have an opinion. And I recognise that it is ultimately a matter of taste and each to their own.

Hi Peyman. Nice to know there is another person on the list who appreciates Alevi music. Actually I know there are one or two others.
I am not a şelpe expert though I certainly got interested in it when Arif Sağ really started popularısıng this virtuosic style. (I admit my own attempts are rather ordinary!) As far as I am aware, the parmak çekmek technique (I understand you mean the tapping on the neck with the fingers) is not traditional - by which I mean it was not used in traditional and ritual (cem) performance from which the şelpe (or pençe) technique derived. If you listen to recordings of Nesimi Çiman or Alevi dedes (or even regional Alevi style specialists like Gani Pekşen) the playing is a much simpler with strumming techniques together with some picking of the notes with the fingers. My assumption is that Arif Sağ introduced the finger tapping in the early 90s (Sağ is responsible for most of the developments in playing bağlama in the past 25 years; so it is a fair assumption!). The seminal piece to use the technique is Direniş ('resistance'), and comes from his 1993 concert recording of the same name and he also incorporated this style of şelpe in his 1995 studio album Umit. The real expert is Erol Parlak (who did his doctorate on the technique and has written a couple of şelpe methods). I would need to check the books to see if he offers any more detail on the history of the technique.
Certainly I think I could say that this style is a concert style of playing and it would not be used in the traditional ritual performance context.
Regards
Paul

Woah! That is some amazing technique


CQ

Hi again, Peyman.
As I have mentioned, I am not particularly "into" şelpe style and am certainly no expert, but as far as I am aware and what I have seen in performances etc, the bağlama generally used for şelpe style is just a normal short necked (kısa sap) bağlama. I have seen on the Toraman Müzik Evi web site some instruments called "şelpe bağlama" and these just look to me like short necked instruments with perhaps an even shorter neck length. I have myself what is also described as a "re bağlama" (as it is tuned to a "d" pitch) which has a neck lenght of 30cm as distinct from my other short necked bağlamas (tuned to a pitch of "c" or "b") that have a neck length of between 38 and 40 cm. The main thing is that the body/bowl is still large, so it is different from a cura bağlama which might have the same string lenght. In brief I would say you could describe the şelpe bağlama as having a very short neck with a large body (hang on that almost sounds like an ud )
In traditional sources the şelpe saz is a small instrument either a cura bağlama (like Nesimi Çimen played) or an üçtelli (cura instrument with 3 single strings) such as Ramazan Güngör played). The instrument is tuned in bağlama düzeni generally (or one of the variety of tunings Güngör used) but not the karadüzen (fifths) tuning of the long necked saz.

As for the haydari bağlama, to be honest it is not a name I recall coming across in my readings. I do know of the term from instruments used by Hüseyin Albayrak and Mustafa Kılçık both of whom have played with Dertli Divani. I have met Mustafa when he came to Australia last year with Divani baba and the instrument he played (which actually belonged to Divani) which may be the haydari saz is a cura like instrument with a slightly larger body that was played with the fingers and had three single strings (that is not double courses of the stings). It gives a very distinct sound. I had a close look at it and indeed played it for a soundcheck for Mustafa and it certainly feels different from playing double coursed saz. This sort of instrument may also be what is known as "dede saz". The whole nomenclature thing around sazes can get very murky (look into what a çöğür is for example). I suspect you are right in the name referring to Hz. Ali. It could also be a reference to a "dervish" saz as the the Hayderi were a dervish group. But Divani uses the instrument I have described in the cem ritual (I have seen this first hand both in Turkey and when he came to Australia) and that would be in keeping with the naming of the instrument in reference to Hz. Ali. Not sure if this is any help; and I am not 100% sure I am right, but this would be my understanding of what the haydari bağlama would be.
Regards, Paul

Paul,
Thank you for the great info again. I read about Haydari on one of the Albayrak albums as well. Ulas Ozdemir also plays one. My own speculation is that the instrument is probably similar to the tanboor used in the jamkhaneh's in Iran. I am guessing that it might actually lack the quarter notes. I have heard about these types of saz's. As you said there is a lot of variety in the saz family.

I myself learnt some shelpe using a baglama cura (60 cm string length). I have 4 strings on it with the first course being doubled and no wound bass strings. This set up makes it easier to play. I noticed that some shelpe players use a similar set up sometimes with 5 strings. I can't do much neck tapping but I am not that interested in it . Wnat gauge strings do you use on your "RE" baglama if you don't mind me asking?
Regards,
PB