carpenter - 5-2-2008 at 11:27 AM
Here are pix of the roses. I'm going for the additional tweeter-holes this time. My Big Idea is to use Northwest/Oregon woods; I have on hand some
figured fir, figured madrone, Port Orford cedar, alder, yew, bigleaf maple, holly ... not enough of anything to make a whole oud from, but it should
prove interesting, and the only guy I have to please is me.
The roses are Port Orford cedar, nice, creamy, tight grain. I like the faceted carved quality. The easy part's over now; better go cut some ribs.
carpenter - 5-2-2008 at 11:28 AM
... and the tweeters.
carpenter - 5-2-2008 at 11:31 AM
Also, the "Northwest" part is so I can get away with the Alaska red cedar top. Otherwise, local stuff.
jdowning - 5-2-2008 at 12:16 PM
Nice work Jim - how did you colour the ravens - by burning or with wood stains?
carpenter - 5-2-2008 at 01:34 PM
That's flat black enamel over shellac, steel-wooled, fine-wet-sanded and burnished with wool. I had this great crows-in-trees idea, but then I really
didn't like all the unrelieved black - there wasn't much contrast between the birds and the black void of the hole in the bowl. I started sanding it
off, and liked the old/worn/distressed look when I was partly done; quit while I was ahead.
The color in the trees is Minwax 'Special Walnut' spritzed on with a toothbrush over shellac.
SamirCanada - 5-2-2008 at 01:43 PM
ooohh nice.
cant wait to see it come about.
very nice roses.
Mike - 5-3-2008 at 07:24 AM
A true artist at work. No doubt I'll be looking forward to follwing the progress of this oud project Jim.
carpenter - 5-20-2008 at 09:26 AM
I'm still pondering the crows ... Meanwhile, some real progress. I got the neck and pegbox pretty much finished. The wood is figured madrone; nice
wood, but impossible to take a picture of the figure to my liking. Originally a piece of firewood some fifteen years back, it finally finds a
respectable home. Wish I had more, and not already cut to stove length.
I intend to do a light/dark bowl, and didn't have quite enough madrone for the whole neck; the extra lamination is alder. A pretty red and orange
thing going on there, I think it will work visually. The wood was busy enough that I just put a bevel on the corners to pick up some light. No need to
go nuts this time.
carpenter - 5-20-2008 at 09:38 AM
Bowl time. I had a little (just enough) bit of this figured fir, and it seemed a shame not to use it. I intend to use a yew rib, not really having
enough of it either, then two of these fir ribs herringboned, a yew rib, and so on. (Fir?! You never know.)
This is a pic of an experiment - the thickness is 3mm, and a much tighter bending radius than a rib - if it will do this, then I guess it'll work at
2mm. There's a check on one end of the stick, so I have to mind that; also needs a soft touch with the planes and scrapers. Nice, wiggly figure, more
red-and-orange intent, with three coats of Tru-Oil, just to see. I like it so far.
paulO - 5-20-2008 at 04:14 PM
That rib sample looks very cool, very unique and interesting grain pattern. Thanks for the updates, much appreciated.
Regards..Paul
jdowning - 5-21-2008 at 12:32 PM
Did you manage to get a smooth bend with the fir Jim? Softwoods can be prone to 'wrinkling' or creasing across the grain on the inside curve when
being hot bent, even at 3mm thickness. Not sure the best way to avoid this - soaking wood beforehand, using flat sawn rather than quarter sawn ribs,
higher bending temperatures etc? What did you do?
carpenter - 5-27-2008 at 04:49 AM
I think I got lucky! I used a copper pipe and 200w light bulb bending iron, not hot enough to scorch, sprayed the iron side of the rib with a little
water, and used a block of maple to press down on the rib, sort of rocking it around the bend. Slow going. If that hadn't worked, I would have gone
with the metal backing strap approach.
The wood's as quarter-sawn as it can be, fairly close-grained, and it's smooth on the inside of the bend. I've had wrinkling on the inside happen
before, and thought then that flatsawn wood might not do it as much, but never got any farther than thinking. I do get a nice surface on ribs before I
bend them - no bandsaw marks, consistent thickness and so on - maybe that helps spread stress. No idea.
My biggest worry is that the little bits of figure will pop out during the process. So far, so good, but it's certainly not over yet.
Jameel - 5-27-2008 at 04:53 AM
I've always wanted to make a softwood bowl to see how it affects sound. I was thinking Spanish Cedar. This will be an interesting oud Jim.
veyselmaster - 5-27-2008 at 06:50 AM
very nice rossetes
carpenter - 5-27-2008 at 07:22 AM
<< This will be an interesting oud Jim. >>
I do have my theories ... and "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" gets me up in the mornings.
<< very nice rosettes >>
Thank you! I'm still not entirely certain about them; maybe they're a little too "real." I'm drawing some others that are more symmetrical, abstract,
flatter. I'll dummy up a soundhole and see how things look "in place."
I was doing two things at once, and possibly got bad reception on my mental radio. The crows and trees did end up in this (still rough) logo
for a music venue: the rosette crows may have been the right thing in the wrong place. We'll see.
carpenter - 5-27-2008 at 10:35 AM
Speaking of drawings: "Most Likely to Succeed," bats and clouds. Less is more. I'm still thinking, and paper's cheap.
Okay, sometimes Less is less, but I'm liking this one so far.
carpenter - 6-2-2008 at 09:12 AM
There, now, that's better. Figured madrone - same as the neck and pegbox - with a little shellac and burnishing. I like it, plus I have a soft spot
for bats; probably between my ears ...
carpenter - 6-4-2008 at 02:01 PM
... and the little guys. I sure hope this oud will be as cool as I'm imagining.
Jameel - 6-5-2008 at 03:37 AM
Holy roses, Batman!
This is going to be one unique oud, Jim. Excellent workmanship.
carpenter - 6-5-2008 at 06:24 AM
Thank you. I like all the air in the big one.
And they're strong, too - you can park a truck on 'em:
carpenter - 7-20-2008 at 10:03 AM
A little progress - I got the fir ribs ripped and planed on one side. Again, I'll say how great planing is; I pity the poor sanders. As curly as this
wood is, I got a practically mirror surface - a couple of passes with a freshly-sharpened scraper takes care of the remaining microscopic chips in the
figure. It's well worthwhile to get a decent old plane and learn how to sharpen and tune it up.
You can see one of my favorite high-mileage workhorses - a Bailey #3 corrugated sole. It has a non-factory 100+ year old Barton laminated tapered
iron; close to 3/16" thick at the business end, no chatter. I sharpen to 600 grit on a granite surface plate, and work up to polishing on a 8000 grit
water stone for a mirror edge - that helps.
carpenter - 7-20-2008 at 10:10 AM
And that yew didn't work out as I'd hoped, so I looked at some walnut I'd been kicking out of the way for a while. It wasn't quite wide enough as was;
I figured out this ripping jig, and got a near quarter cut at the right width. It turned out to have a subtle figure that I didn't see through the
rough surface, so I'm pretty happy.
On to the final thickness.
GeorgeK - 7-21-2008 at 09:07 AM
The pattern in that Yew (2 slides up, right under the truck picture) looks absolutely beautiful. What was it that "didnt work out".
Nice jig (on the previous slide). I was trying to dream up a good method for cutting the ribs to the right thickness. Thanks for sharing.
carpenter - 7-21-2008 at 09:46 AM
<< The pattern in that Yew (2 slides up, right under the truck picture) looks absolutely beautiful. What was it that "didn't work out".
>>
That's the fir; it's a keeper. The yew took an unexpected short-grain turn into where a limb used to be - two inches longer on the straight end, and
I've had it made. Thus the walnut solution.
<< Nice jig (on the previous slide). I was trying to dream up a good method for cutting the ribs to the right thickness. Thanks for
sharing.>>
It takes longer to set up than to do the cuts. Luckily, 45 degrees worked perfectly in this case, and I had a 45 metal block for setup. Otherwise, I'd
cut a wood block at the correct angle for the job to set up the angled fence/table. It also makes gravity my friend in helping keep the stock against
the thickness fence, but close attention is still a good thing.
I use a piece of 1/4"square stock and a small machinist's clamp to reference the distance from the rip fence to the miter slot; once I get it right,
future rib thicknesses are easily duplicated, which is great, as long as I don't need that clamp ...
Hope it works out for you.
SamirCanada - 7-21-2008 at 02:44 PM
beautyfull stuff sir.
thanks for sharing with us.
carpenter - 7-24-2008 at 11:49 AM
I guess I'm going to have to take back half of what I've said about sanding (well, maybe not half ...). I was curious, so I took my pile of
one-side-planed ribs over to friend Josh's shoppe to use his thickness drum sander. I have to say, not that bad! I'd initially wanted to just buzz off
the bandsawn surface and see how that went, but heck - finish-thickness-plus-a-couple-of-swipes-with-a-scraper was just a couple of passes away. My
planer would've chipped out a lot of the figure; this went really quickly, smooth and consistent results, reasonably quiet (a plus).
Thanks, Josh.
jdowning - 7-24-2008 at 12:50 PM
No question that a sander thicknesser will do a quick and accurate job - possibly the only alternative with 'very difficult' wood grain.
This brought to mind an earlier thread by Hosam "The Abdo Nahat Project", posting dated 1-18-2007 where a drill press sanding thicknesser was used to
thickness ribs. This seems to be a useful 'home built' device using a low cost 'drum' sander so I have taken the liberty to attach an image of the set
up. I have not tried it but it should work well if you have to resort to sanding to thickness highly figured ribs.
carpenter - 7-24-2008 at 01:49 PM
Thanks, John. That looks like it should work, with a true-running drum. I'd much rather plane, myself, but I just had to see.
I did have an unrelated good idea: I was touching up the scrapers, and came up with these burnisher handlebars. The burnisher is an old VW piston
wrist pin, nice and hard, but I got tired of hit-and-miss burnishing angles, and occasionally slicing up my thumbs when I don't pay Best Attention.
The dowels are a press-fit into the pin; pretty simple. An additional benefit, besides the substantial future savings on Band-Aids, is that I find
that it's easier to judge and maintain the desired angle.
Now all I need is some streamers, a bell, and a horn.
SamirCanada - 7-24-2008 at 07:25 PM
nice one.
you can also keep it under your pillow in case someone breaks in.
Meet the piston burnisher.
jdowning - 7-27-2008 at 03:41 AM
Just for information. I checked one of my drum sanders for 'run out' yesterday. The drum sander is a low cost affair - a solid cylinder of rubber with
a threaded spindle that allows the cylinder to be compressed at each end in order to retain a cylindrical tube of abrasive sanding paper. The drum
sander was mounted in a drill press - just the rubber cylinder, without the sandpaper tube - with the rubber slightly compressed. Run out was measured
with a dial gauge mounted on the drill press table and with the drill chuck rotated by hand. Maximum run out was 0.012 inch (0.3 mm) - too much, I
would judge, for accurate thicknessing work. I didn't check run out of the drill chuck but assume that this would only be a small amount.
No doubt, the rubber drum could be made to run true by mounting it on an accurately machined custom designed spindle and compression collars - but
this would take this solution out of the 'low cost home built' category for most who do not have metal working lathe facilities and skills.
Christian1095 - 8-14-2008 at 07:56 PM
The bats came off way cool looking..... I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing the finished product.... I'm still drooling over the Celtic Oud...
I've always loved the running dogs motif......
carpenter - 8-15-2008 at 12:14 PM
Yup, the bats are most cool. I think I'm going to use them instead of Crows In Trees. A little savings account for the future there ...
Looks like No Progress on this one lately, and it's true - I've been a little jammed up lately with repairs, and canning produce and pickles. 'Tis the
season to be putting food by, but it sure cuts into a guy's free time.
<< I've always loved the running dogs motif...... >>
Me, too; I have them inked on my bodhran head (Irish single-head drum). Sven in Boston, who bought that doggies oud, likes 'em a lot, also. There's a
recurring thought that using dogs as a motif might have limited the buying audience somewhat. I don't know.
I have the ribs for this one finally (!) cut, just need to find some quality, alone time to fire up the bender. News as it happens.
Guess Samir's snoozing, too ...
SamirCanada - 8-18-2008 at 05:29 AM
yup I am for sure...
I am in the quest for the same quality alone time you speak of
Is this a race?
Jameel - 8-18-2008 at 08:16 AM
SamirCanada - 8-18-2008 at 11:04 AM
LOL
good one Jameel
Christian1095 - 8-18-2008 at 11:53 AM
I'm glad the doggies oud found a good home... If I had had the cash at the time, that home would have been at my house 
"I" prefer the bats... they feel more 'stealthy' in the sense that it still has the classic look of the rosette pieces I've seen --- but with bats....
The bird and the tress are both awesome pieces as well... but much like the doggies, it's a clear deviation from what you see on most rosettes...
Also, have you ever done a Dead inspired oud?
(BTW - I've been using this as a screensaver... And if you ever do a T-shirt run of this... I'm a 2X and I'll buy two.
carpenter - 8-18-2008 at 02:39 PM
<< Is this a race? >>
"Gentlemen, start your benders." Looks like more progress from the acknowledged Champ. Not worried, we remain a firm contender around the first lap
with the neck-and-pegbox and rose completed. We think we have a strong clubhouse-turn and homestretch organization, and remain optimistic.
<< Also, have you ever done a Dead inspired oud? >>
Hmm. Not really, but maybe the bats come closest to the drawings. T-shirts? There's this, for spreading a little global Oud Consciousness:
http://www.horizonscreenprint.com/buy_deadguy.html
Christian1095 - 8-18-2008 at 02:57 PM
T-shirt is awesome! but the site won't let me buy it... apparently, there is some kind of problem....
carpenter - 8-18-2008 at 03:04 PM
<< the site won't let me buy it... apparently, there is some kind of problem.... >>
Dang. That's not right; I'll give 'em a call, see what's up with that.
carpenter - 8-20-2008 at 06:55 AM
Sorry, no response from the screenprinters. I'll keep trying.
Meanwhile, it's kind of humid here for August ...
DanielH - 8-20-2008 at 07:15 AM
Regarding your t-shirt art - I wonder if that jester was still alive when he began tuning...