Mike's Oud Forums

Rishi craze

Jameel - 4-27-2004 at 04:05 PM

Everyone seems to be commenting on all kinds of new material for plectrums, so here is my two cents.

I recently had an oud lesson with Simon Shaheen, and he showed me his tortoise shell rishi. Given that the stuff is banned, and thus very difficult to obtain legally, I did some research and found that a new material is being produced to replace natural tortoise shell, i.e. cultured tortoise shell. It is called Tor-tis, and is available from http://www.lmii.com. I've made several picks from the material. It has a very warm character and works very easily, although there are some thing to learn about it. It is used by guitar players, mandolin players and the like, and is very well received as an excellent substitute for natural tortoise shell. I attached a pic of one I made. If you guys decide to try it out, I don't think you will be disapointed. I've sold a few of these on ebay, but the stuff is so easy to work with that I decided to share it with you all, instead of going into business ;)

Zulkarnain - 4-27-2004 at 04:14 PM

Great discovery Jameel!!

TruePharaoh21 - 4-27-2004 at 04:16 PM

Hey Jameel, how much have you sold them for over ebay?

TP21

P.S. Considering the real stuff's banned, shouldn't we try to protect our oud virtuoso from being incriminated by online posts? Just a suggestion...

mavrothis - 4-27-2004 at 04:25 PM

Hey Jameel, looks very good. I would be interested in buying some from you if you are still making them. I usually use the clear Turkish picks with a medium stiffness.

Let me know the details.

:)

Take care,

mav

Jameel - 4-27-2004 at 06:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TruePharaoh21
Hey Jameel, how much have you sold them for over ebay?



TP21

P.S. Considering the real stuff's banned, shouldn't we try to protect our oud virtuoso from being incriminated by online posts? Just a suggestion...



I sold them for $15.

It's not illegal to posses the shell, just to harvest it or sell/trade items made from it after the ban. There are plenty of older tortoise shell items (combs, boxes) that are out there, they are just very expensive now.

Jameel - 4-27-2004 at 06:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mavrothis
Hey Jameel, looks very good. I would be interested in buying some from you if you are still making them. I usually use the clear Turkish picks with a medium stiffness.

Let me know the details.

:)

Take care,

mav


Hey Mav,

These give a warmer sound, I think. If you want one or two, I suppose $15 is still a fair price since they take a bit of time to shape and smooth nicely, plus one lousy sheet of the stuff is like $40!

samzayed - 5-13-2004 at 11:19 PM

I recently got my hands on one of these, and its an amazing risha. It offers loud projection, just the right amount of stiffness where you can trill comfortably, and great control. It quickly became my risha of choice.

Thanks Jameel! :bowdown:

Nice

Elie Riachi - 5-14-2004 at 07:18 PM

Nice job Jameel. Did you get the .045" thick stock? What is the thickness at the ends?

Also, I was thinking about using the pick gaurd material from International Luthiers Supply. I believe a sheet of the same size but about twice as thick sells for around $20. I am not certain it is the same material though but sure has the same colors!

I have made my rishas from vynle gutter covering and also from shower boards thicknesses .0395" and .041". But the one you show looks very nice and probably sounds great.

jeanluc - 5-14-2004 at 11:26 PM

hi,
I'm really surprised, after having red so many threads of smart people of this high range forum discussing endlessly about how to obtain the best sound of the very best & most authentic oud, and how this & why use that sort of strings etc..., that so many may have time to spend shaping all kind of things in whatis still plastic at the end,-even de-luxe-, when they can easily get some authentic & natural risha, i mean horn risha, which is easy to shape at its own taste and doesnt cost the third of what we see sometimes....
it's already enough with these cheap ouds if one can't even get at least good risha, then no need of so much useless gossip...
why not soak plastic rishas in used motor oil, that could give a better sound, who knows???....
;)

Jameel - 5-15-2004 at 06:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Elie Riachi
Nice job Jameel. Did you get the .045" thick stock? What is the thickness at the ends?

JAMEEL: Yes. I barely thinned the ends, just basically rounded the edge. But you can scrape the thickness you want with a heavy razor blade.

Also, I was thinking about using the pick gaurd material from International Luthiers Supply. I believe a sheet of the same size but about twice as thick sells for around $20. I am not certain it is the same material though but sure has the same colors!

JAMEEL:NOT the same material. The Tor-tis is special. Do a search and see what guitarists are saying about it. They love it.

I have made my rishas from vynle gutter covering and also from shower boards thicknesses .0395" and .041". But the one you show looks very nice and probably sounds great.

Celluloid

Elie Riachi - 5-15-2004 at 07:35 AM

Jameel, have you tried celluloid for making rishi? I know that is used in making guitar picks. I am just interested in the difference in sound production. It is hard to find celluloid sheets but it is sold as pickgaurd material and I read that it is dangerous to work with (flammable).

One of the rishas that I use a lot is the one made from the gutter covering. It is 6 mm wide and 11.2 cm long. My wife thinks it sounds the best of all the ones I have tried so far.

Haven't tried Tor-Tis yet. But tried a celluloid guitar pick and I liked the sound a lot but don't have enough to make rishi.

As I was searching for raw material sources to make rishis, I found several alternatives at the knives making sites. There you can get Elk horns and crowns, Ivory substitute, celluloid sheets with interesting sychodelic patterns, goat horn, giraffe bone...

Oud on....

samzayed - 5-15-2004 at 11:26 PM

Jeanluc,

You sound a bit critical in the use of "plastic", however, have you tried this Tor-tis material? I was really skeptical before I tried it, but it hits the spot for me.

I have 20 strips of horn sitting in olive oil, and I can't get any of them to sound as warm, or have the desired flexibilty as this Tor-tis material.

jeanluc - 5-16-2004 at 12:05 AM

hello sam & everyone,

I don't mean this particular -& other " plastic type "- material might not be good, for me it's just like ridin' an old mule when you have a nice horse waitin' for you outside.
As this" tor-tis" is almost ready, on the other side, you need to care about your rishas, and prepare them , to the desire sweetness & suppleness (?)you desire. Ronny has been developpin' very well the process many times. it's a matter of patience and may be just love of the good object done , which will give back to you hundred times , the labor you put in it.
But for me , if i have to spend time doin' nice rishas, why should i choose any "plastic"type material when there is posibility of usin' horn ?

samzayed - 5-16-2004 at 12:19 AM

Jeanluc,

I get what you're saying. But I've spent lots of time tweeking horn rishas, and I even got a few from Ronny. In the end, most of what I played was too "clicky" sounding, or ended up chipping or breaking. It was too much maintenence, and too much time spent for a little thrill.

All I'm saying is you that you shouldn't discredit it before trying it. I too was skeptical. Try it man, you may love it more . .

jeanluc - 5-16-2004 at 11:41 AM

hi sam,
yes, it takes some time to do them,but also , it needs some kind of trainin' to use them properly , the way of touchin' the strings...etc.
but i didn't succed in breakin' one while playin' though...(true that i didn't try....)
if i ever come across it ,promissed , i'll try it....:)

norumba - 5-19-2004 at 06:20 PM

Hi Sam,
if you dont like all those horn ones you have sitting about, ill take a few off your hands...:)
Jameel - I too would be interested to buy some of your tor-tis rishas also...

Elie Riachi - 5-21-2004 at 04:57 PM

Hi,
I received a 4.5" x 7.5" sheet of Tor-tis medium. The thickness tapers from .039" to .026" along the 4.5" dimension. I sort of like the sound and when cut along the 4.5" dimension the ends will be a different thicknesses at it kind of gives you 2-in-1 choice of rishi thickness. However, there is something peculiar about this material, the warmth of the players hand kind shapes the material so the rishi will conform to the player's hand, in a way it might be comfortable. The rishi will retain this shape even after you lay it down. It can be straightened out by holding it in hand straight.

Did this happen with anyone else using this material?

Here is a picture of what I'm talking about.

samzayed - 5-21-2004 at 05:05 PM

Yes, that's the characteristic of this material, it reacts to the warmth of your hand. Be careful if you try to straighten it by hand, I tore mine! Jameel recomended running it under warm water, and then gently straighten it out.

So do you like the sound of this material?

Elie Riachi - 5-21-2004 at 05:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by samzayed
So do you like the sound of this material?


It is okay. It is slightly better than what I was using. But I am not sure that it is the $40 better. The gutter covering "vinyl" sounds good too and much cheaper.

Nevertheless, I think the Tor-tis has a richer sound and feels easier for tremlo stuff. I'll have to run the rishi test by my wife and see which one she likes the sound of better (we kind of do the blind rishi test, it doesn't excite her too much.)

I'll post results.

Elie

samzayed - 5-21-2004 at 07:04 PM

I agree with you on that, you get a very rich tone against the strings, and tremelo with it very easy, even with a stiffer tip. :D

Zulkarnain - 5-24-2004 at 12:25 AM

Hi

This is my 'shell risha' that I got from Tunise 2 years ago-dont like the thickness but I like using it when playing with those big gauge strings set on the Oud-regards

Zulkarnain - 5-24-2004 at 12:27 AM

Here is the measurement-salam

chuckerbutty - 5-24-2004 at 01:55 AM

I've got one just like that as well.

mavrothis - 5-25-2004 at 01:09 PM

Hey,

Just want to thank Jameel for the tortis picks, they are now my favorite ones. They're perfect for my playing, with strong projection combined with great flexibility for fluid picking.

I love it!!! Thanks again!

Take care,

mav :applause:

juiceman33 - 3-15-2005 at 06:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jameel
Everyone seems to be commenting on all kinds of new material for plectrums, so here is my two cents.

I recently had an oud lesson with Simon Shaheen, and he showed me his tortoise shell rishi. Given that the stuff is banned, and thus very difficult to obtain legally, I did some research and found that a new material is being produced to replace natural tortoise shell, i.e. cultured tortoise shell. It is called Tor-tis, and is available from http://www.lmii.com. I've made several picks from the material. It has a very warm character and works very easily, although there are some thing to learn about it. It is used by guitar players, mandolin players and the like, and is very well received as an excellent substitute for natural tortoise shell. I attached a pic of one I made. If you guys decide to try it out, I don't think you will be disapointed. I've sold a few of these on ebay, but the stuff is so easy to work with that I decided to share it with you all, instead of going into business ;)

juiceman33 - 3-15-2005 at 07:03 PM

The Tor-tis pickguard material is not the same material used for tortis picks. If you are interested in a rishi made from tortis, you should contact red bear trading at redbeartrading.com. They could probably make you one. I recently spoke with Dave Skowran from red bear and he explained to me the difference between the two materials. I'll attach the e-mail and hopefully it will help. - Justin

Hi Justin,

The guards are made of Tor-tis, a plastic, by John Greven's company "Turtle Works". My picks are made from New Tortis - an organic product, by my company "Red Bear Trading Company". The material I use makes lousy pickguards and the material John uses makes lousy picks!

John was the one who turned me onto the material to make the picks from.
He let me use a hybrid of his "Tor-tis" name, hence "New Tortis".

My picks are all but indistinguishable from real tortoise shell.

Regards,
Dave Skowron
Red Bear Trading Co.

Jameel - 3-15-2005 at 07:23 PM

Great news. I still like my Tor-tis picks, but I'm eager to try this new stuff! Thanks!!

can i have a couple jameel?

habeebkum - 3-18-2005 at 05:15 PM

marhaba jameel,
i was just wondering if u would be willing to sell me a few of your rishas made from the Tor-tis material?
if you need my email address it is habeebkum@yahoo.com. my new oud is arriving tomorrow and cant wait!!!

Jameel - 3-18-2005 at 05:41 PM

Habbeebkum,

I'm not making the Tor-tis picks at the moment, but keep your eye out. Something may happen in the future. Stay tuned.......