Mike's Oud Forums

Leon Al Istanbuli [???]

ALAMI - 8-10-2008 at 09:08 AM

Anyone heard of a oudmaker called :

Leon Al Istanbuli (Leon of Istanbul) ?

Ararat66 - 8-10-2008 at 11:03 AM

Hi Alami

That makes me 'Leon Al Portsmouth' - unfortunately I don't live in Istanbul and I don't make ouds ... but what a name!!!;)

Best wishes

Leon

ALAMI - 8-10-2008 at 11:32 AM

:D

Oud Freak - 8-10-2008 at 12:10 PM

Yes Alami, I heard about leon stambouli and I even saw one of his ouds with my teacher when I started learning. I can remember the oud was nice looking and sounding, but it was tuned slightly higher. However I've never seen this oud again. I shall ask him if it is his oud or if he borrowed it from someone, and if he knows anything about the maker. Will get back to you later on, if answer available. Cheers!

Adel Salameh - 8-10-2008 at 02:46 PM

Hello,
Istanbuli Leon is the hanna nahat of Lebanon........ his ouds are very sharqi, warm, alot of bass.
Best wishes,
Adel

ALAMI - 8-12-2008 at 12:56 PM

Thanks a lot guys for the tips, it was very helpful.
I met (and get) today a Leon Istanbuli oud.

It will need some work and as you can see the central and one small rosettes are missing with some damage around but the rest of the face is good, the bowl is probably lemon.

Stringlength 63, bowl 52X38.5 and 20.5 deep.
Fingerboard is ivory and looks perfect.

ALAMI - 8-12-2008 at 01:20 PM

The label says:
Leon Istanbuli
Making and repair of musical instruments
Beirut - Al Basta Al Tahta

There is no date on the label.
It looks pretty old, may be 30s-40s.

Adel and Oud Freak it would be great if we can have some extra infos about this maker.
I guess he is an Armenian maker
Leon is a common name among the armenian community in Lebanon -....and may be Portsmouth?? ;) - and Al Istanbuli is probably related to the place he came from, the majority of the lebanese-armenian community is also originally from Turkey .

Adel Salameh - 8-12-2008 at 01:57 PM

Hi Alami, I know he is Armenian oud maker....I have played few of his ouds and the sound is so big and warm.....he lived in Lebanon and produced many ouds...yet his ouds are not available....so what you have here is something very special....made in the 1940's...he was defnitly one of the best oud makers in Lebanon...
your oud is in good condition, needs repaires not a big deal....but please take it to somebody who knows what he/she is doing.....this oud is important as Hanna nahat....
Also I advice you not to use alot of tension on this oud, 2.8 kg is good ....not more than this....
Enjoy your oud.
Best wishes,
Adel

charlie oud - 8-13-2008 at 04:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ararat66
Hi Alami

That makes me 'Leon Al Portsmouth' - L.O.L Nice one Leon, dull day, your sense of humour has cheered me up, thankyou :applause: :D :D

Ararat66 - 8-13-2008 at 07:20 AM

Hello all

I was just about to ask if he was Armenin - not many Leons in Portsmouth but I am half Armenian and named after my uncle Levon Arakalian ... I also have a broad Yorkshire accent which may seem a bit incongruent

Many Armenians ended up (many in a terrible state) in Syria and Lebanon at the beginning of the last century, so the Istanbuli makes a lot of sense. I really hope you can get this oud back to playing condition Alami, it keeps the full extent of musical flavour alive!!!

Adel, are you playing the UK soon, I briefly met you at the West End Centre in Aldershot last year, I really enjoyed your concert.

Best wishes

Leon

mavrothis - 8-13-2008 at 11:28 AM

Congratulations on acquiring this oud! It looks beautiful and seems to be of great historical value, in addition to probably being a wonderful instrument to play.

Take care,

mavrothis

ALAMI - 8-13-2008 at 11:48 AM

Thanks for the infos Adel, I am delighted to know what you think of the value of this oud specially when it comes from someone with your experience and your knowledge.
This find is a double joy, because beyond discovering a fine old oud, it is also a discovery of a luthier most of us didn't know.

You are right the oud is in good condition and it is very playable but I prefer not to string it before having it checked by a luthier. Be assured I will not let inexperienced hands touch it, Nazih Ghadban is going to see the ouds in few days. May be it is time to use this gut set I was saving in the dark and dry.


In Lebanon armenians are known for precision work: Instrument making, watch repair, photography, fine printing....Leon is right about the fact that most armenians that fled to Lebanon and Syria were in a terrible state but they were also a chance and a positive force for the countries who received them.

Thanks mav, I'll post a sound file when the oud is ready (hope it is not going to be long)

Ararat66 - 8-13-2008 at 03:39 PM

Alami is absolutely right, being part of a diaspora provides a good chance to transform negative situations into positve, the energy that pushes people away from their homelands can drive them to excel which can have wonderful benefits.

Alami .. enjoy your oud my friend, it is so good to hear of these great masters, and that someone is prepared to honour them.

Leon

Oud Freak - 9-13-2008 at 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oud Freak
Yes Alami, I heard about leon stambouli and I even saw one of his ouds with my teacher when I started learning. I can remember the oud was nice looking and sounding, but it was tuned slightly higher. However I've never seen this oud again. I shall ask him if it is his oud or if he borrowed it from someone, and if he knows anything about the maker. Will get back to you later on, if answer available. Cheers!


Alami, as promised, please see the pics of the related Leon Stambouli oud. Gorgeous one, elegant shape, nice sound!

Oud Freak - 9-13-2008 at 12:39 PM

The bowl.

paulO - 9-14-2008 at 09:10 AM

Hi Alami,

Super cool oud man, great find. Can't wait to hear it.

Regards..Paul

ALAMI - 9-14-2008 at 09:17 AM

Thanks Oud Freak for the pics, it is a beautiful oud in perfect condition, the body seems narrow in comparison to mine which is very large (38.5 cm).

The rosette design is interesting and unique: the design is asymmetrical and the patterns are very uncommon.

Mine has lost his rosettes (except one small one), I still have a tiny hope that the lady who sold the oud to me might find them, she remembers that they were "somewhere" but cannot find them, meanwhile Nazih is working on the oud and it will be ready soon.
The main difficulty that faced him was that the neck is globally rotated a bit around its axis (torsion longitudinale)

Thanks for the pics, it is a great thing that the members here are sometimes able to bring back a master from being forgotten and that we can see and hear their work again.

Restoration by Nazih Ghadban

ALAMI - 9-19-2008 at 03:04 AM

The holes around the missing rosettes have lost parts of the face wood , the possible scenario is that the oud received a quantity of water (or other liquid) directly on the face as the dark stains suggest, the roses' glue came loose and they were taken away by force damaging the face around.

Nazih was able to fit and color 2 pieces of spruce to fix this.

We decided to keep the unique small rose hoping to find the original ones.
Thanks to Oud Freak, we know now how the rosette might have looked.
(BTW, OF I would be grateful if you can post a higher res or close up picture of the rosette in case you have such a pic)

The steps of the work on the face:

ALAMI - 9-19-2008 at 03:06 AM

There was a long crack along the neck.
The crack was "opened" and glued again

ALAMI - 9-19-2008 at 03:07 AM

Also a big crack and few small ones in the bowl

ALAMI - 9-19-2008 at 03:11 AM

The finished oud,

ALAMI - 9-19-2008 at 03:16 AM

And finally - and best of all - what makes all the effort worth it and very rewarding, the old master is speaking to us again:

mavrothis - 9-19-2008 at 06:55 AM

This has been a great thread, thank you.

To see the progress made on this rare oud, and then hear such a beautiful sound clip after the restoration is extremely satisfying and uplifting.

I hope you enjoy this masterpiece for a very long time. Mr. Ghadban has done a beautiful restoration job once again.

Take care,

mavrothis

Adel Salameh - 9-19-2008 at 07:33 AM

what a beautiful sound......very Arabic indeed.
Enjoy your oud Alami,
Salamat,
Adel

SamirCanada - 9-19-2008 at 07:48 AM

Oh waw!
its excellent.
Mabrouk

jdowning - 9-19-2008 at 08:27 AM

Nice oud and lovely, well balanced sound ALAMI.
Did you use the gut string set? If so, could you provide more information about the strings, gauge, string length, pitch tension etc. etc.
Thanks

Oud Freak - 9-19-2008 at 09:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ALAMI
Thanks Oud Freak for the pics, it is a beautiful oud in perfect condition, the body seems narrow in comparison to mine which is very large (38.5 cm).

The rosette design is interesting and unique: the design is asymmetrical and the patterns are very uncommon.

Thanks for the pics, it is a great thing that the members here are sometimes able to bring back a master from being forgotten and that we can see and hear their work again.


You are most welcome ALAMI. The oud i posted has a nice sound too despite the strings are somehow old (5 years or stg like that). I find the shape of the bowl very elegant and comfortable for playing.

Cheers!

ALAMI - 9-19-2008 at 09:28 AM

Thanks Mav, Adel, Samir, John and OF for your kind words.

The oud came with the Aquila light installed by Nazih
and am keeping them tuned a full step down (as they are not really light) and I like the sound.

I was planing to install the gut strings this weekend but I am concerned about the tension on this 63 cm string-length oud.
Gut don't like to be tuned down more than a half step (do they ?) and I am not really sure am getting those online calculators.

The strings I have are polished gut with the following gauges (in hundredth of a mm):

50
60
79
100

What would this translate in terms of tension for 63 cm ?

paulO - 9-19-2008 at 10:33 AM

Hello Alami,

Thanks for the sound clip. Fantastic sounding oud, sweeeeet sounding -- great restoration work. Amazing. Thanks for sharing this adventure with us. Take care and happy playing !

Regards,

Paul

jdowning - 9-19-2008 at 12:50 PM

To calculate gut string tensions , there is a 'build it yourself' slide rule (remember those devices before the days of computers - still very useful though!) for free download by Dr. Eph. Segerman of 'Northern Renaissance Instruments' that may be of interest at
http://www.nrinstruments.demon.co.uk/StrCalc.html
Eph. Segerman is a pioneer researcher into early string technology and maker of gut strings.
I also attach for information a table giving the limits of historical gut strings at various string lengths. This table is taken from FoMRHI Comm #3 "Gut Strings", November 1975 by Segerman and Abbott.
The degree of twist affects the flexibility (and breaking point) of the gut. A "Venice Catline" is a kind lute bass string - here assumed to be constructed like a rope rather than simply twisted.
Oud strings were also, historically, made from silk - but that is another can of worms!

Kelly - 9-19-2008 at 12:54 PM

Hi Alami
Great playing and lovely sound - what a restoration indeed. Maybe also try Aquila Turkish lights tuned 1/2 step down which may give you the tension you need.
Best wishes
Kelly.

Adel Salameh - 9-19-2008 at 02:24 PM

2.8 the max for the strings Alami.....this is an old oud, 63 CM....you MUST be careful with the strings that you are using......Aquila are very good ....but they pull alot .....gut strings too they can be very hard on the instrument....
If you are using pyramid lute string.... I will go for 0.55- 0.57 for the Kardan (C) and 0.73 -0.76 for the nawa.....
also you must play the oud....the sound of this oud will open up in few months time......
Best wishes,
Adel