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George Nahat Oud for Auction

JohnChris322 - 8-25-2008 at 06:21 PM

Dear Oud friends,

About a year and a half ago I came to these forums for some assistance in regards to an old oud found by a friend of mine in his relative's attic. It turns out this oud might possibly be one of the very first ouds made by George Nahat, of the famous Nahat family of master oud luthiers. This oud is now being offered for sale via open auction. It was recently professionally appraised for $2000 USD, and I will ask all bidders to please email me with offers for no less than that to start. My email is johnchris322@yahoo.com. Please submit all bids through there. Attached are a few photos showing the oud, as well as a zip file containing more photos for your viewing. Thank you in advance for your interest, and let the bidding begin!

Thank you,
Laura

P.S. Please view the OFFICIAL PROFESSIONAL APPRAISAL (lots of information about the oud there...please read in full) and APPRAISER INFORMATION links below.

Appraiser Information

Professional Appraisal

PHOTOS

Zip File with Nahat Photos

FastForward - 8-26-2008 at 08:04 AM

I doubt this is a Nahat Oud, this looks so bad, the wood, the finishing, etc. I honestly do not see any resemblance to Nahat ouds. The appraiser didn't see the oud according to the info provided and apparently they are a general appraiser, not specialized with ouds!!! It was more or less a case of you saying this is a Nahat oud made in the period xxx-xxx and they said if that is true then it is worth $$$!!!

Anyway, good luck.

JohnChris322 - 8-27-2008 at 07:29 AM

I received most of the information from highly regarded members Richard Hankey and another man. I trust their knowledge. I also received much interest from a gentleman in France who wanted to purchase this historic Oud, but it just didn't work out.

P.S. Richard, I've tried to email you a few times, but the emails keep bouncing back. If you see this, please contact me. Thanks!

Christian1095 - 8-27-2008 at 01:24 PM

I would be curious to hear what other board members thought of this oud... It's certainly a pretty piece under all those layers of yucky... but it looks like you'd have to do a lot of repair to make it playable... That sort of makes me question it's value.... but to each his own.

Also what was that bit about "this is not the original label" and then going on about how the label said it was a nahat and #20..... Don't those contradict?

Brian Prunka - 8-27-2008 at 06:53 PM

I looked at this oud in person. My opinion is that it quite likely was made by one of the Nahats. However, it is a very small child's oud, completely unsuitable for an adult to play. As noted, it has a lot of crud on it and needs some repairs. It is of some historical interest possibly to a collector, but of no value for anyone interested in playing music on it.

Old oud

spyrosc - 8-28-2008 at 09:14 AM

I resent the implication that I authenticated this oud. I never saw it up close. All I saw was the pictures posted. Here's what I said at the time in these forums:

"The label inside looks authentic (and of a certain period), the size, shape, markings and decorations could be a Nahat, the pickguard I've never seen one like it on a Nahat, especially not on Gorgy Nahat, and I'm having a hard time with the rosette. It is neither the composite type (wood and bone/ivory) with the Nahat circle, or the elaborate ones (of which George had used also). I'm also having a hard time making out the "Gorgy Nahat" name on the rosette"

I don't know how you can interpret the above as me saying it is authentic.

Spyros C.

Alioud - 8-28-2008 at 12:05 PM

I opened this post because, like everyone else, we all want to own a Nahat, or have more than one!...

But this piece of junk, I am sorry to say, has nothing that even comes close to being a Nahat... particularly a Gorge Nahat.

This is an extreme amateur work and it's not fair to accuse one of the Nahats to have done this atrocity !!!!

I really urge you to sell it as ( An antique Oud, unknown maker ) .. and I don't think it should get you more than 50 to 100 dollars.

Ali

Marina - 8-29-2008 at 02:52 AM

You guys are all very nice, bat Alioud made a point.

We had this story about Kings clothes...
Goooosh, the oud face is made of old vegetable box!!!Can't you see that it has no strait lines but some huge eyes.
The rosetta looks like my mom's hoby art & craft work.
:mad:

But, at the end, mayby it is Nahat that he made it for himself when he was 8 years old. Bravo kiddo!
:applause:

Marina - 8-29-2008 at 03:08 AM

PS
OK, OK, I was not nice in the last post about this "Nahat" oud. There is about 450 people that have seen those pictures and did not say anything (just a few) - and most of them, but not everybody, know what's up. Maybe the seller is great guy, and he also don't know what he has. Maybe some of us would buy something BAAAAAD because we are to nice to tell the truth.
Personaly, would a hero like CHE say the truth? O, yes.

JohnChris322 - 8-29-2008 at 06:11 AM

Not once did I ever say I was a professional or historian when it came to ouds. I also stated that I was assisted by members from these very forums in assessing this oud. Based on what I was told and the interest that was shown at the time, this is what I came up with. It doesn't surprise me that somebody would say that this piece would be worth only 50 or 100 dollars. That's a shame really. Enough said about that before I get myself in trouble. Listen, if you are interested in this oud, please email me. If you are not, keep your comments to yourself. Like I said, last year there was a person in France who was willing to pay close to the current beginning asking price. Obviously, this person knew and understood the historical value of this piece. If you do not, that's your problem. By the way, I did some research on these forums and looked at a number of pictures of old Nahat ouds. If you do not think the back of this oud has Nahat like characteristics, I don't know what to tell you. True the front of this oud is not in good condition, but if you did read the description (as I asked) this oud was sitting in an attic for many years. I was told that restoring this instrument would not be very costly, and if done by the right person, could be brought back to life. Brian was correct in that this oud is smaller than a standard oud, and again, if you read the description, you would have read that this might possibly have been either a woman's oud or a child's oud. There are no secrets being held here.

Spyros, I will remove your name from the above post.

Mike - 8-29-2008 at 06:26 AM

Just imagine if this really was a Nahat. With a little TLC, imagine what a steal it would be at this price. I'm just saying.

By the way Laura, I'm with you on seeing other Nahats that have VERY VERY similar like bowl characteristics. The binding, the bridge, and the inlays are also Nahat like. Hmmm...makes me wonder.

Christian1095 - 8-31-2008 at 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnChris322
1. Not once did I ever say I was a professional or historian when it came to ouds. I also stated that I was assisted by members from these very forums in assessing this oud. Based on what I was told and the interest that was shown at the time, this is what I came up with.

2. Listen, if you are interested in this oud, please email me. If you are not, keep your comments to yourself.

3. Like I said, last year there was a person in France who was willing to pay close to the current beginning asking price. Obviously, this person knew and understood the historical value of this piece. If you do not, that's your problem.

1. No but you did point to a "professional appraiser" as proof of it's authenticity. And having read the appraisal, it's my opinion that they went on what YOU said and then did an internet search to pull together lots of info on the Nahats... which ws fun and informative to read... BUT I would have a hard time buying the appraisers word alone...

2. When you post something to this board, you have to expect us to talk about it. This is not an online aution house. If you don't want commentary, you should look for bids on eBay. And unless Mike or one of the other admins think I'm out of line, then I'll throw my comments right on out there...

3. The whole "last year there was this guy in France" thing does not lend you any credibility. Unless you are willing to say, who what when and where... then it just sounds like you made it up... Its like me saying, "I was told by a highly respected coach, that I could play in the NHL" Or "My car is regarded by some experts as being the fastest production model on the face of the planet" (Love my Scion) The difference between those two statements however, is that I'm not trying to sell you my NHL contract or my car... In this case you're trying to sell an oud...

Quote:

I received most of the information from highly regarded members Richard Hankey and another man. I trust their knowledge.

Also, when Spyros says "I resent the implication that I authenticated this oud" and your response is to delete his name and put in "another man" seems kind of dirtbag-like in my opinion.

Oh, one more thing...

Quote:

I was told that restoring this instrument would not be very costly.

Were you told by a world famous Lutheir in France whose opinion we all respect and admire?

-------------------------
So, here's my opinion...

1. It's prob. a Nahat (I'm basing this off of what Brian and Spyros wrote)
2. It's completely trashed. I don't know how big a small child is... but the words "but of no value for anyone interested in playing music on it." pretty much did it for me.
3. The condition of the piece looks completely scary... I'm sure some of you Luthiers could make the repairs and clean it up... but it looks like a ton of work...
4. From the way he has responded and the way he has presented himself, I would be very careful about doing business with this person. If other board members know him and would vouch for him, thats one thing... but without that, unless you were willing to pick up the oud in person I'd steer clear of this one.... He could be a wonderful guy and I could be totally off base... But I find the way he responds as being shady and there's no way I would send him $2,000 of my cash.

Samer - 9-3-2008 at 02:18 AM

Sorry John but I dont think the oud is made by Nahat at all , its badly painted. Look at the rosette, pegs, chest ,etc.

John don’t take it personal ! its nothing personal. its just the oud u think it worth $2000, does not worth more than $20. Try to list it on ebay, u might get $150 or so if u are lucky.

Good luck.