francis - 9-20-2008 at 05:15 AM
Hello.
I want to start a new topic on the forum, because I've certainly been fooled after ordering a new oud here.
I will tell the whole story later, I found a lot of informations since I'm trying to find a good issue to it . At this day there is no good ending
.... Almost 1000$ payed to Abdelaal Hassanin, no news from him since more than a week, and a broken oud still waiting for repair.....
Many "new sellers" recently appeared on the forum....They send one or two pics of an oud, a maker's name and that's all. How could we trust them, they
don't offer any guaranty...
No name ( but an avatar ) means that there is no resort possible if the oud is bad or damaged...
I'm sure that the "seller" of my "Nahat copy oud" appears under different avatars since several monthes. So it's possible to ask the questions and to
give the answers at his advantage...... So the buyer or the guy who ask for more details or precisions becomes the dishonest one......
Would it be possible, here, on this forum, to ask any seller to give his real name....
This forum is a great one. Here we can find thousands of marvellous posts about all that is concerning the music and the instrument we love. It really
don't worth to offer the topics to shadows who are just attracted by dollar's smell....
I will give soon whole details about this sad story.....I'm still waiting for an honorable ending , but without illusion!
I don't want that other oud lovers live the same deception.
At first, now, be very carefull with the Swiss connection......and maybe in some other european states.....
More informations to come....
Francis
Jason - 9-20-2008 at 12:21 PM
I've always found the 'dealers' on the forum a little disheartening. I would NEVER order an oud from one of these people.
Always only buy an oud from a reputable builder or a reputable member of the community. If someone only posts ouds for sale and never participates in
discussions it should immediately raise a red flag. I've been on this forum for a few years now and almost every unresolved oud buying issue has been
with a "middle man". There have been several cases of shipping damage coming directly from builders and they always remedy the situation promptly and
to the satisfaction of the buyer.
It's these 'middle men' that make empty promises and string people along for months promising repairs or refunds.
DaveH - 9-20-2008 at 01:00 PM
I've noticed this too, but my response is, it's an internet forum - caveat emptor. I think part of the problem is that this site is such a friendly,
welcoming place, full of helpful, honest and knowledgeable people, it can be easy to get lulled into a false sense of security. We forget that anyone
can join and there's no way of guaranteeing someone is who they say they are or indeed stop them from taking on multiple personas. You wouldn't wire
money to someone you met in a yahoo chatroom with no guarantees without seriously checking them out.
I really feel for your predicament, Francis, and I know its easy to be wise after the fact, but, I'd say that if it's even remotely practical, it's
better to take the day off and drive to the seller rather than be at the mercy of la Poste (or any other postal service - there are so many stories of
mind-boggling damages, it's hard not to draw the conclusion that they're deliberately trying to break musical instruments). That way you can check it
out before you buy too.
I take jason's point about middle-men, but on the other hand, I don't think it's fair to demonise them. Most of the ones who come on this forum seem
to be genuine. It's just that there's never going to be the kind of intimate relationship between an intermediary and his reputation as there is with
a maker. Makers will bend over backward for you and accept losses which aren't strictly their responsibility because they care about their reputation.
Intermediaries are businessmen. Like good businessmen they see a gap in the market, with a lot of demand in Western countries, where the money is, and
people making ouds at comparatively low prices in the middle-east. It should be a cinch, but on the other hand, if this one goes belly-up they'll try
another game.
Last point about posting/courriering instruments. As far as I can see, most of the intermediaries and even some makers have no idea how to pack. In my
opinion a hard case IS NOT sufficient protection. Jees, when I ordered a hard case, the makers posted it to me in four layers of bubble wrap, even
with no oud inside. As far as I can see, the only way to be reasonably sure when courriering an instrument is to insist on something of the order of a
very strong plywood box with a pine frame and solid polystyrene packing surrounding the oud. Anything less is asking for trouble. One of the easiest
ways to break an oud is to drop it on its end in a hard case. Without a big foam block taking up the empty space between the end of the neck and the
case wall it's very easy for the peg box to just shear off. A 1m fall is plenty. People really should be absolutely sure the shipper is taking
adequate precautions.
But as I said, I'm really sorry you had such a bad experience. Good luck with resolving/replacing.
oud_man - 9-20-2008 at 04:15 PM
Dear francis
sorry to hear about your bad experince.
The only thing that I can suggest always make sure u use paypal as a oayment method as you will b full covered with up to $1000.
KR
francis - 9-20-2008 at 04:19 PM
Dear Oud_man.
Possible when the seller accepts paypal...
francis - 9-21-2008 at 02:52 AM
Thanks for giving your whole opinion. I'm new ( a few monthes ) in the "oud world " and may be the welcoming, helpful and friendly posts on this great
forum make me forget the hard reality of some business...
Sure that now i'll never buy again an oud from such a seller....
I play music more than 30 years ago. During these years I bought some great instruments, from France , Ireland and Bulgaria .....I never had any
problem. I never cross a seller ( but it was makers ) such in a hurry to get the money and far or agressive and fasly when it's time to resolve a
damage.....
May be this "gives" me a second reason not to be distrustful......
The two following links relate the begining of this story:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=7918
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=7994
nadir - 9-21-2008 at 11:46 AM
This is a very good issue that you have touched upon.
I personally am dealing with Gokce Engin and the team of http://www.turkishouds.com
Does anyone have any knowledge or can recommend me their business? They have already agreed to accept PayPal and I have seen a picture of the
instrument.
As far as that Abdelaal Hasanin character goes, if you look into the back of one of the ouds, you can see the person that has taken the picture is
CLEARLY not in Switzerland! (But rather in the Middle East) This person seems like a scam artist to me, you should get his IP address from Mike and
report him, your money is not lost.
francis - 9-21-2008 at 01:24 PM
I receive a laconic email from the seller ......I have to wait the result from insurance....but no proof the oud has been insured.....wait and see....