stos - 10-25-2008 at 07:05 AM
hello,
I wrote some message before but I have now my own oud so it's a good occasion to present myself
I'm almost 22, I play 5 years contrabass, and 4 month trichordo bouzouki (and hum... two weeks oud 
)
Now I'm staying in greece for some month to learn oud but I lived the last years in belgium and in France
I bought it last week when I was in Istanbul from this guy http://www.turkishmusichouse.com/
really friendly
he gave me a lot of cd's of oudist and I went some few times to his atelier to ask things and also to make a repair on the oud
and he was always ready to help me
The sound is in my opinion really nice
I tried some other oud before and thats is my only comparaison possibilities
the price was around 300/350 euros with a hard case
the only problem with the oud is that some days after the instrument was let in a room where the was a drying machine and there was a lot humidity and
the soundboard was at one little place unglued (in the inside)
and he repaired it directly
now the soundboard direct in front of the rosette is "sinking" a little bit inside and he told that is due to the repair and that the soundboard will
have his original form after two weeks
it seams strange to me that it will take the form back alone
what do you think of this?
( I will attach one picture also)
stos - 10-25-2008 at 07:06 AM
one picture
sorry for the bad quality I have only the integrated webcam of the laptop
stos - 10-25-2008 at 07:08 AM
rosette...
stos - 10-25-2008 at 07:09 AM
back
stos - 10-25-2008 at 07:11 AM
global view
stos - 10-25-2008 at 07:12 AM
and this the sinking soundboard repair
Jassim - 10-26-2008 at 01:54 AM
thats not tru
you need to fix it agine
or it well not retern
stos - 10-26-2008 at 03:13 AM
oh
are you sure about this?
I ll maybe wait one week more and see what happen...
did you ever fix something like this?
to be more precise : the soundboard unglued from one the parallel bars under it because humidity and heat
how do you fix this kind of problem normally if not like this?
thanks
francis - 10-26-2008 at 03:34 AM
Bonjour.
L'endroit où la table s'enfonce, sur ton oud, est l'endroit où toute la force se concentre.
A mon avis 2 cas possibles:
1- Trop de tirant sur les cordes ( elles sont d'origine? )
2- Barrette décollée à l'intérieur, dans ce cas la rosace doit être démontée pour recoller....
Ne laisse pas trop l'instrument "travailler" ainsi, sinon il ne reprendra pas sa forme seul. A ta place je détendrai les cordes por le moment.
( the place where the top is "sinking" is the place where the top is most under the tension.
To my opinion, two possible reasons:
1- The strings gauge is too strong for this oud ( new strings? )
2- A brace unglued inside the top. In this case the rosette has to be removed to reglue the loose brace.
May be it would be better to avoid such a strings tension now, the top will not return to his form like this....)
stos - 10-26-2008 at 06:43 AM
I ll try in french, maybe it will be more explicit
ok je vais essayer d expliquer en francais ca sera peut etre plus clair
la table avait deja etait gondolée vers lexterieur apres avoir ete dans un endroit humide
c est apres la reparation que la table a ete enfoncée comme ca et le luthier ma dit que c etait du a la reparation et qu elle allait reprendre sa
forme originale toute seule
a ce que jai cru comprendre il a du faire ca pour pouvoir recoller la table a la barre de renfort
mais c est vrai que ca me parait bizarre que ca reste comme ca
je suis un peu perdu javoue
francis - 10-26-2008 at 07:21 AM
Normalement la tension des cordes crée une dépression de la table, c'est ainsi que se construit le son du oud....avec cette tension en creux.
La table gondolée vers l'extérieur ( bombée? ) après un séjour à l'humidité pourrait signifier un décollage, soit au niveau table caisse, soit
de barrettes si l' épicéa a gonflé....Si c'est le cas, il doit avoir gonflé en largeur, pas en longueur et les renforts n'ont pas dû suivre, mais
je ne vois pas pourquoi eux auraient changé de forme.
En admettant que le bois ait gonflé, s'il a été recollé humide, çà va se redécoller au séchage....Je ne comprends pas très bien.
Qu'est-ce que cela donne quand tu regardes la table en biseau: elle travaille juste à cet endroit, près de la petite rosace ou globalement aussi?
J'ai eu ce problème avec un oud récemment acheté, en fait c'est la liaison table/caisse qui était défectueuse....
Dr. Oud - 10-26-2008 at 09:43 AM
The condition of the face is due to a delamination (glue joint failure) of the brace below the shamsiya (large soundhole). The greatest tension on the
face is just forward of the bridge, and there are 2 braces between the bridge and the shamsiya. Normally there will be a depression forward of the
bridge due to the touque on the bridge from the string stension. This torque is transmitted through the face and often causes it to raise up above the
brace below the eyun (small soundholes). This means that the face should be raising up where it shows the depression. Most Turkish ouds are built with
a relief along the edges or with concave braces to counteract this condition from developing. The brace ends on your oud have delaminated from the
ribs at the sides and some of the brace is probably loose along the face glue joint. To fix it you either have to remove the shamsiya or the edging or
both in order to reglue the brace.
SamirCanada - 10-26-2008 at 07:29 PM
Yah its not fixed my friend,
Take the strings off now!
and take it back when you can because the joint for that brace failed again.
stos - 10-27-2008 at 02:18 AM
thanks for helping me
ok the point is that at FIRST :
it was because of one unglued brace that I went to the luthier (the soundboard had a little "hill" ) and then after "repair" the soundboard was going
down between the big rosette and the two little (see on the picture, sorry I cannot do better one)
I ve detune the strings because you scared me 
but I really don't understand because when I asked the guy why the soundboard is now sinking like this, he answered me that it because of the repair
and it will come back alone in two weeks
this guy make a lot of repairing of different instrument also tanbur and harps and oud
it seams to me strange that for one time he made some nonsense about repairing....
so there it is not about big string tension or anything else it is the repairing of the luthier that made this (to answer to francis)
and to dr oud: if the soundboard was unglued from the braces then the soundboard would make a "hill", not sink? no?
thanks a lot guys
what should I do? go to a different luthier here in greece? or try to go back to istanbul to the same guy...
stos - 10-27-2008 at 03:15 AM
"This means that the face should be raising up where it shows the depression. Most Turkish ouds are built with a relief along the edges or with
concave braces to counteract this condition from developing. The brace ends on your oud have delaminated from the ribs at the sides and some of the
brace is probably loose along the face glue joint. To fix it you either have to remove the shamsiya or the edging or both in order to reglue the
brace."
ok I think you answer to my question but I don't really understand all the technical words
does somebody can translate it to me in french
thanks a lot
I'm so angry that I cannot play this oud
francis - 10-27-2008 at 03:57 AM
Oui, c'est parti pour la traduction.
"Les bouts des barrettes sont décollées de la bordure de la caisse et certaines barrettes sont vraisemblablement décollées de la table aussi. Pour
réparer , il faut soit ôter la rosace pour réparer de l'intérieur, soit détabler pour tout reprendre.
AvantIl dit que la table doit être redressée là où elle creuse. La plupart des ouds turcs sont conçus avec un léger reliel sur les bordures ou
avec des barrettes incurvées ( concaves ) pour empêcher ce problème...."
Sinon, pour répondre à ta question précédente, la table ne se relève pas avec la tension, elle s'enfonce, elle se tend vers l'intérieur. Les
barrettes contrôlent la compression, de ce fait...et ainsi se fait le son.
Pour t'expliquer autrement, si une trop grande longueur ( ou surface ) de la table n'est pas maitrisée par les barettes, celle-ci s'enfonce ( pas
assez retenue. )
Ce genre de problème est malheureusement fréquent sur les ouds neufs:instruments oh combien fragiles et capricieux!
A+
stos - 10-27-2008 at 11:28 AM
ok merci beaucoup pour la traduction
thanks a lot everyone for helping
sorry also about my understanding of english language : when it become to technical discussion it is hard for me to understand everything
as I said I detune the instrument and put him to rest in his bag 
I'm going in two days to one oud player with experience so that he can take a look better and tell me if he know one luthier here around
I hope everything will be ok soon
I'm so frustrated, my arrival in the family is a bit complicated
SamirCanada - 10-27-2008 at 11:35 AM
stos...
in greece you can take it to
http://www.dimitrisouds.com/
or to
http://www.theodorakis.name/
stos - 10-27-2008 at 02:01 PM
thanks a lot samir
stos - 11-3-2008 at 02:08 AM
hello guys,
I have things to do in istanbul wednesday and maybe thursday and I wanted to ask you for adresses of luthier who could fix this oud there
thanks
stos - 11-5-2008 at 01:58 AM
ok I changed my mind
my oud is since yesterday in tassos atelier, will see what happen
thanks to everybody
stos - 11-7-2008 at 08:17 AM
hello everybody,
Now that tassos has seen the oud I have more information :
the wood of the soundboard has not been dry enough
and thats why the other luthier couldn t do a better repair
but he definitly lied to me telling that the soundboard will have a normal shape again
on the recommendation of tassos, he will change the soundboard, make a new bridge but keep the old rosettes
he told me also ,that except the sounboard, it is a well build oud with good wood (I think ceddar), so it worth it to change the soundboard
so at the end, one good and one bad news : have to change the soundboard but the rest of the oud is better that I imagined first
It will be ready in about 20 days I can t wait, I m really excited
thanks to everybody who helped me and thanks to mike for this great forum
stos - 12-1-2008 at 04:40 AM
hello every
I ve got my oud some days ago and it is wonderful
tassos change the soundboard, made a new bridge and put a wonderful pea<b>rooster</b> pickguard
the sound is really great, maybe to so bassy but he told me the sound will open with some time
I m really happy
I will post pictures when i ll have time
thanks a lot for your advices anf mike for this really helpfull forum
now...pratice...
Ararat66 - 12-1-2008 at 01:44 PM
Hey Stos
Believe you me if Tasos has had his hands on it and he says it will open up hold tight 'cos that will be one wild oud
I have a Tasos ou and it still makes my knees go all trembly
Best wishes Stos
Leon
stos - 12-2-2008 at 12:25 AM
thanks
yeah I think it will be a killer
i have also to say that tassos is really a great person very friendly
I m very happy that he was the guy who fixed it