Mike's Oud Forums

Peg slippage

nayoud - 2-16-2009 at 12:34 PM

I haven't been playing my oud for sometime because the agony I sometimes go through to retune after peg slippage.

I've used chalk on previous ouds and seemed to work fine for a while and was wondering if anybody used sitar peg "rosin", they say its better than chalk ... any ideas also welcomed

http://www.raincitymusic.com/sitar%20accessories.htm

Cheers and salams
Hisham

suz_i_dil - 2-16-2009 at 01:13 PM

Hello
I don't know about the rosin you are talking about, but I heard chalk may damage the wood with time, but don't know actually why.
A maker recommended me to use this white powder which is used for the babies, named " talc " in french, I don't know the name in english.
I use it and it works well.

nayoud - 2-16-2009 at 01:23 PM

Hi suz_i_dil

Yes its called talcum powder, it used to be made from some type of natural limestone, now its scented and must have finer synthetic components to it .. thanks for the tip never thought about it...
Cheers
HS

rojaros - 2-16-2009 at 10:41 PM

Hello, there is a lot of material on slipping pegs in the forum, just use the search fucntion.
In my experience it's mainly due to poorly shaped pegs or peg holes (or both).

For making the pegs stick better I use a product called "Wirbelseife" (peg soap), see
http://www.thomann.de/de/gewa_wirbelseife_464860.htm
I'ts kind of sticky when the peg is tuned but slides well after initial resistance when you start to move the peg.

Im sure there are some equivalents in your country - violin repair shops are the best adress for that kind of issues, also if you want to have the peg holes or pegs reshaped.

best wishes
Robert

Matthias - 2-17-2009 at 12:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rojaros
Hello, there is a lot of material on slipping pegs in the forum, just use the search fucntion.
In my experience it's mainly due to poorly shaped pegs or peg holes (or both).

For making the pegs stick better I use a product called "Wirbelseife" (peg soap), see
http://www.thomann.de/de/gewa_wirbelseife_464860.htm
I'ts kind of sticky when the peg is tuned but slides well after initial resistance when you start to move the peg.

Im sure there are some equivalents in your country - violin repair shops are the best adress for that kind of issues, also if you want to have the peg holes or pegs reshaped.

best wishes
Robert


Hello,

now after making lutes and ouds over 25 years I must say that the combination of chalk and soap is the best. I never did realize that there are any damages. And looking on old instruments, you will not find any. May be that damages come from ebony pegs, which are not good for the holes. Using a soap it must be mentioned, that this soap must be old and absolutely dry. I once got a piece that had 200 g when it was new, but when I got it only 120 g. A further important point ist not to apply too much of both. If so, little balls of that mixture may appear and theese can damage the peghole.

About the mentioned "Wirbelseife" I want to say:
I tried this and the better sort which is brown and not black, that costs 5 times are working a bit but looks bad on light colored pegs and is drying itself very quickly, so you can use it once ore even twice. I threw it away soon.

best regards

Matthias

Reda Aouad - 2-18-2009 at 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthias

Now after making lutes and ouds over 25 years I must say that the combination of chalk and soap is the bes


Is this combination of chalk and soap used to prevent pegs from slipping or making them more slippy?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthias

May be that damages come from ebony pegs, which are not good for the holes


Some of the best ouds are fitted with ebony pegs. How can it be not good for the holes? And what do you think is the best wood type to be used?


Thanks :)

DaveH - 2-19-2009 at 12:24 AM

Matthias, I use what's termed peg paste in the UK. I'm not sure if this is the same as Wirbelseife, but what's your opinion on this? I find, over the time I've been using it, it works well. I don't think I've ever applied it more than once on any one instrument. It seems to achieve both purposes: lubricating pegs which stick and firming up ones slip.

Matthias - 2-19-2009 at 02:04 PM

Quote:

Is this combination of chalk and soap used to prevent pegs from slipping or making them more slippy?


soap makes the pegs running and chalk stops them. How much you need from each material must come from your experiance. Sorry! So start with minimum of each.
Quote:

Some of the best ouds are fitted with ebony pegs. How can it be not good for the holes? And what do you think is the best wood type to be used?


Which best ouds, old or new?
If an old lute was build with ebony pegs it was really an exception, may be for a design lute it was used, but nearly never for a working instrument.
The violin makers have a lot of work in repairing the peg holes, as violins always have ebony pegs. Ebony is rubbing out the holes. Can you imagine how much work you will have to make this work on a oud or even on a lute with up to 24 pegs? It would be less work to make a new pegbox.

The best wood for pegs is boxwood. Old violins, viola da gamba and lutes used this wood. I often use plumwood and olive wood too, which are very good also.

regards Matthias

Matthias - 2-19-2009 at 02:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveH
Matthias, I use what's termed peg paste in the UK. I'm not sure if this is the same as Wirbelseife, but what's your opinion on this? I find, over the time I've been using it, it works well. I don't think I've ever applied it more than once on any one instrument. It seems to achieve both purposes: lubricating pegs which stick and firming up ones slip.


Hello Dave,

I did not say that Wirbelseife or peg paste - I think both is the same and comes in different packages - does not work. I mean it looks not good and mine dried very quick, too quick that it can't be used any more and must be thrown away.

regards Matthias

cjmichael - 2-20-2009 at 08:51 AM

I've been told by luthiers that soap and chalk work just fine. One of them told me to make sure the piece of soap you use is completely dried by leaving it in direct sunlight for a while.