Marina - 3-17-2009 at 02:31 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aiTpRPoQ78&feature=related
Edward Powell - 3-17-2009 at 02:48 AM
looks like they had to practice a lot to prepare for this concert.
is this a TARGAN piece?
katakofka - 3-17-2009 at 04:28 AM
Munir bashir's piece, the flying bird
how one can be on stage like this and playing false notes all over the piece?
I couldn't listen to it.
Just to compare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDt54Du0ljk
no false notes in here
------------
played by Munir bashir
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c5k9pTnfeA&NR=1
Edward Powell - 3-17-2009 at 08:09 AM
in the middle east traditionally for 900 years or so the groups had one unbreakable rule, and that was to have as many instruments as you want, but
never more than one of each type. The reason is because the way maqam music used to be played included a lot of improvised ornamentation around the
composed melody. Furthermore, the microtonal placement of individual notes was to a large degree a personal thing - different musician would place
notes slightly differently.
This is partly why individual instruments were not doubled and tripled... because only having one of each instrument means that the individual
ornamentations and intonations will CLASH much less when you have only one of each instrument.
Another point is that even when instruments are found in an ensemble in numbers larger than one: 10 violins etc... the general rule has always been
that you can double-up more on the instruments with higher pitches. The reason for this is obvious... many unison voices together in the high
register sound very good - but in the low register sound very muddled and muddy. It is a question of frequencies. . . . if you put a lot of low
frequency instruments together it sounds absurd, of course! Has anyone ever heard an orchestra with 20 contra-basses 
) ...but 20 violins in normal.
An oud is characterised by a very deep rich tone... full of low-mids and bass tones. As I just mentioned, those frequencies do not lend themselves to
being OVERLAPPED.
Regarding this particular clip/performance, my guess is not that the players are playing out of tune as KATA suggests, because these guys are world
class masters who are hardly capable of playing "out of tune"... but I would suggest that the impression of out-of-tuneness is a result of putting
3 ouds together. Each player has slightly different and individual intonation - which would not be so noticable with an oud-kanun-violin... but with
3 ouds together, the timbre of the instruments is the same, so the differences in intonation come across as out-of-tune.
my 2 bits
suz_i_dil - 3-17-2009 at 09:33 AM
20 contrabasses no, but 6 there is a music group who do such
here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BzaF9TAFlI&feature=related
Just an exemple to take you to the word...I mean I understood what you were meaning.
My less than quarter bits contribution.
Edward Powell - 3-17-2009 at 10:33 AM
hey i like that 
- - - nice gimmick!
and why not? audiences seem to need such gimmicks to get them to listen to instruments like ouds and dbl basses.
maybe we just need something 'weird' every now and then to keep things fresh and interesting?
Reda Aouad - 3-24-2009 at 09:20 AM
Ed.. It's not just the different intonation of the ouds. Their ouds are slightly out of tune with respect to each other, which makes the recording
sound awful. Even on my laptop's cheap speakers i noticed the difference.
Listen to the attachment - it's a part of "Hawas" by "Le Trio Joubran" from their "Randana" album (have you heard of them? They are amazing players).
Just to compare with the youtube video, the three brothers play perfectly in tune and harmony and you wouldn't notice any slight difference in
intonation.
Edward Powell - 3-24-2009 at 09:38 AM
when i listen to munir play solo, then i recognise that this is a piece of music. For me still my biggest complaint is that I absolutely don't like
the sound of 3 ouds together.
I listened thru it again trying to pick out the off notes, and yes found many - but I prefer not to listen in this way. Some of the best music in the
world has bad notes. I don't mind so much... but I don't like 3 ouds together playing something that simply sounds like a technique exercise.
however, concerning the off notes, we need to remember that naseer is playing a turk oud here when has a shorter scale than what he is used to. He is
a real master, but i am sure he is incredilby busy with the school and probably doesn't have much time for practice anymore.
Reda Aouad - 3-24-2009 at 09:38 AM
And by the way.. the 6 contrabasses group is amazing!! 
Reda Aouad - 3-24-2009 at 09:49 AM
I think Naseer's Bashir-style oud is 57cm in scale (I don't remember where I read it) - and if I'm wrong it's a maximum of 59cm, which is in the range
of a Turkish oud.
Anyways.. each has his opinion 
I love the Trio Joubran and how their ouds sound and don't like Naseer's style or oud sound at all.