Mike's Oud Forums

57, 58.5, 60, 61.5, 62?? :@

Melbourne - 3-28-2009 at 09:29 PM

I hope the heading catches a bit of attention....

But I want to get the view from people who play ouds with different string lengths. Of course no one likes to have just the one oud. I currently have 5 (more on the way :s). But the problem with this, is they all have different string lenghts. And I dont know of the long term side effects of switching between ouds with different string lengths. Obviously its no prblem when you paly 62, 61.5. But lets say an extreme case like 61.5 and 57. I find that the fingers get a bit confused and flat notes result.

I'd love to know how some of you guys deal with this situation...

Cheers!

dubai244 - 3-28-2009 at 10:14 PM

Hi,

Playing ouds with big difference in strings length making a major problem with your fingers position. I had this experience before. I used to have a oud that have 61.0 cm string length and after playing this oud for couple of years, i bought a new oud which has standard string length 58.5 cm and you can hear the tones are very far out because of the finger positions.

I corrected this problem by getting rid off the 61.5 cm because it was hard to play with it specially if you want to play fast notes. The notes really far from each other, it look like bouzouqi notes.

After that oud, all my orders are 58.5 cm, so i have standard length that i am confirtable with and solve the problem for ever.

Thanks

rojaros - 3-29-2009 at 05:28 AM

I have 3 ouds 61.5; 60 and 58.5; I find it not particularely difficult to switch (most likely because I'm not a virtuoso anyway).

But: the best soundig oud I have is the shortest and it happens also to be theone that is best playable, so in future I could imagine to live with this one length or something very close to that (maybe 59 or 59.5 would be ideal for my hands) as I don't see really any big advantage in much longer string length (at least not soundwise, and wth my hands as they are also not in terms of playing technique).

best wishes
Robert

charlie oud - 3-30-2009 at 09:25 AM

Ive had 58.5, 60 and now play 61.5. I found 58.5 far too short and cramped and the other lengths ok.
I would go down to 60 again if I had to but not below and my preference would be to stick with the same length as left hand technique and the highly important practice of intonation can be secured without having to re-learn or adjust finger placement. C

hama - 4-1-2009 at 03:32 AM

Hi,I find this thread interesting,i would like to ask one question as a beginner:
If i want to buy an oud today, what makes me to decide which string length to buy ?
why should I buy 58.5 and not 60cm?/ and so on
many thanks for your help

patheslip - 4-1-2009 at 03:37 AM

Quite a few fiddle payers switch between viola and violin. I wonder if they have the same sort of discussion?

Edward Powell - 4-1-2009 at 03:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by hama
Hi,I find this thread interesting,i would like to ask one question as a beginner:
If i want to buy an oud today, what makes me to decide which string length to buy ?
why should I buy 58.5 and not 60cm?/ and so on
many thanks for your help


it depends on if you want to play turkish (58cm) or arab (60cm).

Turkish is tuned higher, and needs a shorter length.

Luttgutt - 4-1-2009 at 04:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Edward Powell
Quote:
Originally posted by hama
Hi,I find this thread interesting,i would like to ask one question as a beginner:
If i want to buy an oud today, what makes me to decide which string length to buy ?
why should I buy 58.5 and not 60cm?/ and so on
many thanks for your help


it depends on if you want to play turkish (58cm) or arab (60cm).

Turkish is tuned higher, and needs a shorter length.



Or if you develop a problem with your shoulder (like I did) :(

I am actually now in the process of getting ridd of my ouds, in order to bye 58,5 cm ouds.
And believe me, there is a huge defference when it comes to joints/positure problem.
So you maybe think of that too, not just to tonality.
P.S. turkish ouds can be tuned down to abrabic tuning.
Good luck Hama

hama - 4-1-2009 at 05:27 AM

thanks luttgutt and Edward , i am thinking of getting a Turkish oud with Arabic Tuning I wellcome more advice on this .

rojaros - 4-1-2009 at 06:47 AM

Hi there,
I think you can play any style on any oud, just have to have the right strings and right tuning.

More important issues are playability, posture and sound.

longer open strings mean more spread in the left hand which might be good for some players and bad for others, depending on how your fine motoric movement works. For me personally lesser spread works better though I have quite big hands (so the size alone doesn't answer the question)

Also posture is quite an individual thing, so everybody has to come up with his own answer by trial and error.

As for the sound, nothing too general can be said besides of some tendencies:

- With longer open strings any given set of strings will appear harder.
(though you always can buy expensive custom sets that are matching your tension needs with any string length)

- Also (and this is only a general direction) a given string material at a certain tension will have a different crossection to length ratio and a different internal stiffness, so the higher harmonics on longer strings are different from those on shorter strings, given the same tension; longer strings tend to emphasize the first harmonic more than shorter ones (though this effect is certainly subtle and can be outweighed by many oter factors) and also the harmonics are tuned dslightly differently to each other.

- It seems that also with longer strings the bodies usually tend to be bigger and so the oud might have a more 'bassy' characteristics (though there are also turkish ouds with 58.5 that have huge bass).

So to sum up: instead of trying to follow measurment issues (or any other external visible factirs, for that matter) one might really need to imagine the sound one would consider to be the sound one is seeking after, and then try different instruments and see how they work.

Highlightening one aspect above all other will only lead to disappointment: You might order a 58.5 oud because it is supposed to have the 'right' string length, but the sound is far apart from what you wish for ... etc.

best wishes
Robert
Quote:
Originally posted by Edward Powell
Quote:
Originally posted by hama
Hi,I find this thread interesting,i would like to ask one question as a beginner:
If i want to buy an oud today, what makes me to decide which string length to buy ?
why should I buy 58.5 and not 60cm?/ and so on
many thanks for your help


it depends on if you want to play turkish (58cm) or arab (60cm).

Turkish is tuned higher, and needs a shorter length.
null

hama - 4-1-2009 at 07:42 AM

Many Thanks Robert

rojaros - 4-1-2009 at 02:05 PM

Charlie, I agree that intonation is important, but intonation without good sound and some degree of musical creativity is not really useful; so an instrument that inspires you for a certain mood is maybe musically more desireable than an intonation that is always perfect ...

And I learnt from Muneer B. Fennell, a great jazz cellist, that intonation is more about flexibility and adjustment than anything fixed. It's not a 'robot' kind of thing. It has to suit the musical purpose. Without exeggerating too much one could pinpoint it to: "there is no such thing as an absolutely correct intonation".

That's probabely why there is a lot of variation in all antique musical cultres (indian, arab, chineese, japaneese you name it) in relation to intonation. Mostely musical instruments in these cultures are held more open to varying intonation, mor flexible intonationswise (compare oud and lute, shakuhachi and flute, etc...),.

When I compare old recordings of violin or cello players with new ones (I mean western music now) the young players usually have an outstanding technique and impeccable intonation (I leave aside the issue of digital editing of cd's, that's another topic). But if I had to choose, I'd always choose the old ones, because they are more flexible, more alive ...

So I'd allways propose not to worry about technical aspects of playing too much but rather work on the musical language one is willing to speak - the technique follows off itself then - and then an instrument becomes what it ultimately should be - an instrument, a tool, a medium for doing music, for 'speaking musically'

best wishes
Robert
Quote:
Originally posted by charlie oud
Ive had 58.5, 60 and now play 61.5. I found 58.5 far too short and cramped and the other lengths ok.
I would go down to 60 again if I had to but not below and my preference would be to stick with the same length as left hand technique and the highly important practice of intonation can be secured without having to re-learn or adjust finger placement. C

ozeri - 4-2-2009 at 06:04 AM

I also was wondering what a shorter string length would feel like as I play a Sukar.
Recently I played a friends turkish oud (also tuned turkish)
after a few moments I found it quite easy to play in fact much more so than my Sukar's longer length.
Now I am thinking about buying a shorter scale oud and tuning to arabic.The question arises in my mind about what strings etc. and I would like to hear other's experiences who have done the same thing.

charlie oud - 4-2-2009 at 10:49 AM

Yes Robert, Thats very true. To put it more accurately what I mean is that when I discover spacings which are satisfying for any given phrase I can then practice them and become at ease with this so I dont have to even look where I place my left hand fingers. If I then play on another string length I have to learn those spacings for this length. This is not a problem but does take re-adjustment and re-perfecting. I was not referring to western (equal tempered) intonation in my previous post.