Mike's Oud Forums

Instruments from John Belizikjien

Mike - 4-23-2009 at 03:02 PM

Once again, John has some interesting instruments for sale. I took these pictures awhile back, so I forgot what he is asking for each oud and the kanun. You can email John at dantzrec@aol.com for more information, and I'll get in touch with him to get prices so I can put them in this thread as well.

First is an amazing Persian oud made by Nariman. Maybe somebody can help us with reading the label. This oud absolutely blew me away from the first note I heard. $3,500 (SOLD)



Nariman Label



Next are three Sandettin Sandi Ouds. Very nicely made and sounding ouds.

Walnut/Mahogany. $1,000 (SOLD)



Padauk/Maple. $1,200 (SOLD)



Padauk/Mahogany. $1,800 (SOLD)



This is an Egyptian oud with no label. It comes with a hardshell case and installed pickup. This oud has a surprisingly nice sound and an interesting story. Email John for the details if you wish. $2,000 (SOLD)



Finally, here is a beautiful Turkish kanun he has for sale. It comes with a hardshell case, mandal key, mizraps, and extra pegs. $2,000

Peyman - 4-23-2009 at 04:51 PM

The top of the label on the Nariman oud shows his address and phone. Also it says: Nariman, Builder of all musical instruments, Eastern and Western. The date on the instrument is 1352 which would be 1973.
Wasn't Jonathan V looking for a Nariman oud to add to his collection? Hope he knows!

Mike - 4-23-2009 at 07:03 PM

Thanks Peyman!

whisperoftheoud - 4-24-2009 at 01:09 AM

really good my friend... :bowdown: :applause:

http://www.turkishouds.com

Reda Aouad - 4-24-2009 at 02:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Peyman
The top of the label on the Nariman oud shows his address and phone. Also it says: Nariman, Builder of all musical instruments, Eastern and Western. The date on the instrument is 1352 which would be 1973.
Wasn't Jonathan V looking for a Nariman oud to add to his collection? Hope he knows!


I think you got this one wrong..
The first picture of the label says 25/03/52 and I think it is a Gregorian date and not a Hijri one (Hijri dates don't state the number of the month but rather its name). And the Hijri date 1352 is somewhere around 1933 and not 1973..

I would say it was built in 1952.

aytayfun - 4-24-2009 at 03:56 AM

Are you sure that the last three ones are Sandı.
I never see a Sandı like those. May be the first two form Haluk.
Can we see the labels of last three ouds.

Peyman - 4-24-2009 at 07:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Reda Aouad

I think you got this one wrong..
The first picture of the label says 25/03/52 and I think it is a Gregorian date and not a Hijri one (Hijri dates don't state the number of the month but rather its name). And the Hijri date 1352 is somewhere around 1933 and not 1973..

I would say it was built in 1952.


In that case, the date would have been in a Western numerical system. We're talking the Solar Hijri (Shamsi) used in Iran which now correlates to 1388.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_calendar

Reda Aouad - 4-24-2009 at 09:10 AM

Ok my mistake.. Im sorry :shrug:

Luttgutt - 4-24-2009 at 11:30 AM

Well, it looks to me like the usual western dating!! And from the sound boars of the oud, I'd say it is older the the 70's..

But again, there is a telephone number on the lable! Did they have "personal" telephone numbers in 1952?
It might possible to check when did the have such phone number system!!

Peyman - 4-24-2009 at 12:44 PM

He was born in 1923 which would make him 29 in 1952. I don't think he started building ouds in the early 50's. I am pretty sure he wouldn't have written 1952 with the Arabic script either. It just doesn't make sense if you know the calendar system in Iran. They had phones in the 1950s so that won't help either.

Reda Aouad - 4-24-2009 at 12:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Peyman
He was born in 1923 which would make him 29 in 1952. I don't think he started building ouds in the early 50's. I am pretty sure he wouldn't have written 1952 with the Arabic script either. It just doesn't make sense if you know the calendar system in Iran. They had phones in the 1950s so that won't help either.


mmm.. so the debate is still going on again on that date!

First, most oud makers write the western date in Arabic script on their labels.

Second, his picture on the label shows that he was young when he took the picture, so that would make it probable that he has built this oud when he was 29 years old.

acryl1 - 4-25-2009 at 04:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by aytayfun
Are you sure that the last three ones are Sandı.
I never see a Sandı like those. May be the first two form Haluk.
Can we see the labels of last three ouds.


I have the same opinion.
I have both Haluk and Sandi ouds.
but have not seen such Sandi oud like them.
Especially the rose, pickguard shape, bridge shape are so different.

and I think the Egyptian oud might be made by Samir Hamido.
I have a similar ouds by him.

Marina - 4-25-2009 at 07:28 AM

R those ouds extrimly expensive because they are owned by known player?
Those Turkish ouds look like student models (poor rossetas at least) ...Egyptian one looks kinda Mohamed Ali street models.
I am sorry, I would not like to offend anybody, but I just had to say my oppinion.

Qanun & Iranian oud - I don't know - so no comment.

:shrug:

Mike, please if you want to erase my message, it if fine with me.

:shrug:

Mike - 4-28-2009 at 12:06 PM

The Nariman oud and 2 of the Sandi ouds have been sold.

Marina, many times John has students who ask him to help them sell their instruments. Some of these (and as in some other threads) are the case above. This sometimes dictates the price. The other thing you have to remember is that more than anybody I have ever met, John Belizikjian and the oud are connected in a way that I haven't seen before. On more than one occasion, he's told us stories about how he sometimes has conversations with his ouds as if they are living beings. In other words, ouds are priceless to him. I think Oud.Proff had an excellent explanation in another thread on how and why he prices the ouds he sells. The same applies for a man like John Belizikjien. Cheers....

acryl1 - 4-29-2009 at 02:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike
In other words, ouds are priceless to him. I think Oud.Proff had an excellent explanation in another thread on how and why he prices the ouds he sells. The same applies for a man like John Belizikjien. Cheers....


I understand what you mean.
but the mystery of Sandi ouds are still not solved...
Because I am intereted in that Turkish oud if it is Sandi one,
for its rarity of looks exceptional as Sandi oud. Is there any miscommunication of the luthier's name? Can you please make sure?

Mike - 5-24-2009 at 10:55 AM

The Egyptian oud has been sold.

Mike - 5-24-2009 at 03:29 PM

The last Sandi oud has been sold. The only thing left is the kanun.

siro - 6-30-2009 at 02:54 AM

hi guys
the date is hijri shamsi(peyman is right)1352 in hijri shamsi means 1973,peyman has translated the label very good,i am sure because i am iranian.;)