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fingering techniques

fhalaw - 8-8-2009 at 02:44 PM

Hello,

Small questions, I just want to see how many people play in this way.

But I was taught by one guy in lebanon to play Mi, Mi semitones and quartertones all with the first finger, same thing for la.. etc

I know most people play by hitting Mi with the middle finger. His theory was that when the three fingers are squeezed together if you play mi with the first it gives the exact distance for the fa with the third..

I dont really have any major deficiencies with my technique (in my opinion at least) and can switch easily for tricky la bimol/to la with the first and second finger respectively, but just wanted to see people's take on this.

Cheers,
Fadi

Reda Aouad - 8-8-2009 at 08:41 PM

Hi Fadi.

I never played the first half-flat semitones with the second finger. I would imagine it would be harder. I find it very convenient to play the Mi half-flat with the first finger, and the Fa with the third.

As for the second half-flat semitones, they can be played with any finger, according to the hand position and the ornamentation you need to do.

MatthewW - 8-9-2009 at 02:19 AM

hi Fadi- I think to some degree choice of fingering depends on the individual and his/her technique. Leon recently posted an interesting interview with Richard Hagopian and he mentions something about just using his first and third fingers! I think whatever works for you and gives you the result- go for it.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=9407#pid625...

scroll down for the interview.

(just viewed it again, first third and fourth fingers...)

Reda Aouad - 8-9-2009 at 02:49 AM

Matthew.. "Whatever works for you - go for it".. right but to some extent.

There is also a guy who posted a video on youtube showing off, playing with only the first finger. Would that be acceptable? There are some basic rules that you cannot ignore or twist. You must use all four fingers for best speed and ornamentation. And if Richard Hagopian uses only the first and third fingers, then in my opinion he doesn't deserver the title of oud player. There are techniques and ornamentations that are impossible with only two fingers, not mentioning the speed of jumping between notes and positions. For me, that's totally unacceptable in the professional world. It's the same as using guitar picks for example to pluck the oud strings, or having mechanical tuning heads instead of the original wood pegs, etc... This is the bad effect of modernisation. The oud is a sacred instrument and its legacy must me preserved. Otherwise, just play a fretless guitar. But don't mess up with the oud! That doesn't mean that I'm against experimentation and development, but some things must remain untouchable, which uniquely characterize the oud and give it its personality.

As for Fadi's question, I didn't say that I'm against what he is proposing in that particular case. It's just how he feels about it, and the degree to which he is comfortable with doing it that matters.. again only in this particular case.

MatthewW - 8-9-2009 at 04:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Reda Aouad

Sazi - 8-9-2009 at 04:39 AM

Richard Hagopian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b53p0e5KksQ

Ararat66 - 8-9-2009 at 10:18 AM

Hard for me to not think of Richard Hagopian as anything but a first rate oud player !!!!! I'd swap his three fingers for my four any day ... I bet he can't tap dance

... btw nor can I

Leon

luan - 10-5-2012 at 12:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Reda Aouad

Matthew.. "Whatever works for you - go for it".. right but to some extent.

There is also a guy who posted a video on youtube showing off, playing with only the first finger. Would that be acceptable? There are some basic rules that you cannot ignore or twist. You must use all four fingers for best speed and ornamentation. And if Richard Hagopian uses only the first and third fingers, then in my opinion he doesn't deserver the title of oud player. There are techniques and ornamentations that are impossible with only two fingers, not mentioning the speed of jumping between notes and positions. For me, that's totally unacceptable in the professional world. It's the same as using guitar picks for example to pluck the oud strings, or having mechanical tuning heads instead of the original wood pegs, etc... This is the bad effect of modernisation. The oud is a sacred instrument and its legacy must me preserved. Otherwise, just play a fretless guitar. But don't mess up with the oud! That doesn't mean that I'm against experimentation and development, but some things must remain untouchable, which uniquely characterize the oud and give it its personality.

As for Fadi's question, I didn't say that I'm against what he is proposing in that particular case. It's just how he feels about it, and the degree to which he is comfortable with doing it that matters.. again only in this particular case.

Lol
You are a little bit reactionary, aren't you?

fernandraynaud - 10-5-2012 at 02:39 PM

Can I ask, Reda, since the oud is a sacred instrument, would you say that it's OK to be using 6 double courses on the oud, isn't that unacceptable, when we read in Al Farabi that the oud normally has 4 single strings? Some changes work well, some do not. But I think that you just like the modernisations that suit you, and you call that traditional, when in fact it's changing all the time.

And is it incorrect for cripples to play the oud? You know, like men injured in war, who have lost an arm. Is it OK for them to play oud, the way Mr Shamma teaches? How about those who have a broken or weak finger, or two, or three? Can they play the oud without it being "unacceptable"? And what about the unfortunates who have not learned all the maqamat and who play their 5 tone African music on the oud? or those who play their local music only in Ajam and Nahawand, calling it "major" and "minor", is it disrespectful?

I think of Django Reinhardt, who invented jazz guitar and brought the guitar to new levels of recognition with a different approach, and only had two working fingers to use. I can't imagine a true master of the guitar saying he shouldn't play that way. Do you believe that imitation is more professional than originality? The oud is a sacred instrument: what is more sacred than bringing all those who love it closer together, not further apart? Can you appreciate that many of us here have become friends of Middle Eastern people through this? There surely doesn't have to be just one way to play it.

luan - 10-5-2012 at 03:11 PM

Fallacies...

I don't care how they play their oud.. hell, they could do it with their mouth if they wanted to, as long as I like the tone and the music : )