Mike's Oud Forums

Guitar tuning for Oud

Mortys - 8-11-2009 at 12:18 AM

Hi all friends,

I was curious if anybody has ever tried guitar tuning on Oud?
Is that ,anyway, possible regarding strings tension and gauge. If possible, what kind of strings you would use, classic guitar strings double set?
Any info will be appreciated.

fernandraynaud - 8-11-2009 at 03:48 AM

Hi, Mortys,

There are other members far more qualified to answer you, but let me say that you might tune your oud in a guitar tuning, but probably not starting on E. Take a look at comrade Oudtab's site here:

http://sites.google.com/site/oudguitare/home

Mortys - 8-11-2009 at 04:56 AM

Thanx Fernandraynaud,
It is a very helpful website. But it is clear if it is possible or not?

Brian Prunka - 8-11-2009 at 08:42 AM

This is not exactly answering your question, but:

The traditional Arabic oud tuning is not too different from guitar anyway. Here's how I look at it:

Guitar: E A D G B E
Oud: C F A D G C

The "A D G" are the same, and the high C on the oud is just one half step higher than the B string on the guitar. This is the area where 90% of oud music happens, and there is only one string difference if you pretend like you took the high E string off the guitar.

The low F is also just a 1/2 step higher than the low E on guitar, which I found pretty easy to adjust to.

The low C is the same as the high C, and is not used a whole lot anyway.

If you think of the notes you are playing, it is pretty easy to adjust to oud, although I suppose it would be more difficult if you only learned patterns on the guitar and not notes.

To answer your question, guitar tuning on oud would be approximately a 4th higher all around, which would mean that you need much lighter strings. You could probably do it with a "high F" type oud string set.

oudtab - 8-11-2009 at 09:13 AM

Bonjour Mortys,

Yes, it's works very well.

With an arabic oud, choose the following tuning : C-F-A#-d#-g-c (standard guitar tuning but 2 tones lower) : http://sites.google.com/site/oudguitare/theneck

You can use these oud strings : Aquila AQOA-T11L (http://sites.google.com/site/oudguitare/generalities/thestrings)

You will retrieve all the guitar chords (2 tones lower) :

- http://sites.google.com/site/oudguitare/lesaccords/oudetguitare
- http://sites.google.com/site/oudguitare/lesaccords/utiliseraccords
- http://sites.google.com/site/oudguitare/lesaccords/utiliseraccords/...
- http://sites.google.com/site/oudguitare/lesaccords/utiliseraccords/...

I've transcribed some tabs with this tuning : http://sites.google.com/site/oudguitare/lestablatures/listetabs

To play a arabic tune (for example Lamma Bada Yatathanna) : I pick the original score (if it exists...if not I transcribe it with my ears) and I re-write it, using a "efficient" chord form.

For "Lamma Bada Yatathanna" I've chosen the "Am" form : http://sites.google.com/site/oudguitare/lesaccords/utiliseraccords/...

You can also experiment this instrument, Glissentar by Godin :

** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRNcXWa9rvo&feature=related
** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTzWfHF1NtI&feature=related

- guitar scale (650 mm)
- no frets
- eleven nylon strings (thinner tha the guitar strings : http://www.stringsandbeyond.com/goglgust.html

Mortys - 8-11-2009 at 10:49 PM

Hi friends,

Thank you very much for all the info, i'm gonna try it out on my Bashir oud.
I'll let know .

Thanks a lot

twogoodears - 8-11-2009 at 11:09 PM

Thanks, Michel - a VERY useful and well done job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Superb. :bowdown:

Stefano

DaveH - 8-11-2009 at 11:34 PM

Hi Mortys

As Brian points out, it's very close anyway. If you're talking about getting the same intervals between the strings, so it plays like a guitar, all you have to do to the C'-c tuning Brian describes is to raise the 3rd and 4th strings by a semitone or alternatively (and perhaps more safely), lower the 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th by a semitone.

If you want exactly the same pitch too, I'd say the best thing to do would be to start from an F-f' set, which I normally tune to Fadgc'f'. Just lower the 1st, 2nd and 6th by a semitone.

I can see how this would be useful for someone who was just starting from a guitar background and wanted to try the oud to see if they liked it, but for someone like yourself who's been playing for a while I don't see much advantage. If it's for playing with others, normal oud tuning doesn't really present any problems in the common keys used by guitars.

After all, the only difference between oud and guitar tuning is the position of the one major third interval.

fernandraynaud - 8-12-2009 at 01:57 AM

Just to add to the chaos, let me say that the oud feels most like a 6 string fretless bass to me, so I often tune it that way, in consistent 4ths: (ascending) BEADgc, dropping the 2 low courses a half step each from common Arabic tuning. That way I'm using the exact Arabic tuning on the melodically important top 4 courses, everything is logically in 4ths, and on the less used, and often retuned, bottom 2 courses it's just like on the bass. Any bass experience, Mortys? :D

Mortys - 8-12-2009 at 08:36 AM

Well, actually no bass experience! I tried it and it sound perfect as if it's fretless guitar. Dear daveH i used exactly what you suggested: F strings. Great advice.
Thank you very much all.

Terry Sleeper - 1-16-2011 at 01:29 PM

This is a superb thread, Mortys' question being one I wanted to ask, followed by answers that a humble guitar-player can understand.

Although the "standard" Arab tuning is, as stated above, very close to a "standard" guitar tuning, being new to the oud (see my thread - http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11430#pid78... ) I cannot resist the temptation to string an oud like a 12-string guitar - but 2 tones lower, as recommended.

My only reservation is finding a set of strings long enough to put onto my Iraqi oud which has a floating bridge, and therefore requires longer strings. (Nut to bridge 62 cm - and then some extra to reach the peghead at one end and and the base of the instrument at the other).

Does anyone know if the Aquila AQOA-T11L set (recommended above by oudtab) would be OK? If not, what would?

Sazi - 1-17-2011 at 05:17 AM

Hey Terry, give Matthias' site a look, he has extra length strings available. You could tell him your requirements and he would be able to point you to a suitable set or put a custom set together for you.

http://www.music-strings.de/

Terry Sleeper - 1-17-2011 at 11:54 AM

Thanks, Sazi.

I did contact Matthias and he was very patient - but I had some problems ordering from his website as I could not place goods in the basket to check out. He tried it from his end and it was OK so it must have been gremlins at MY end.

In addition, the cost of the strings, together with the postage and bank charges, was prohibitive - again, not his fault (or mine).

I now have the oud tuned to CCFFBbBbEbEbggcc which is good; but as the 11th & 12th strings will not reach the top 2 pegs on the pegbox, I have had to unwind previously fitted strings and re-string the instrument. It doesn't look pretty, but at least I can play the thing.

I have to say (again): my impression is that oud string manufacturers are somewhat less than generous when calculating the length of the lower strings. What is so wrong with expecting a few generous wraps of a string around a peghead?

Terry Sleeper - 1-18-2011 at 12:55 PM

Bern Kuerschner at:
http://webmail.tiscali.co.uk/cp/ps/Mail/ExternalURLProxy?d=tiscali....

- has advised me that he can supply oud strings with a length of 115cm. Very long, but, given the extra length strings needed with floating-bridge ouds, this will allow a decent wrap of the strings on the pegs at the far end of the peghead. No need for improvisation, the strings can be wound around the correct pegs as shown in various pics / diagrams on the www. as directed to by these forums.

As with guitar strings, better to have plenty of length in hand and clip off the excess than to be struggling to make strings reach and wrap around the correct peg.

Nice and neat and tidy.

JamalLocke - 10-15-2013 at 02:02 PM

I know this is an old thread, but I'm wondering about this issue of tuning an oud lower without special strings. I had an oud at my house for a long time without anybody playing, and I recently started to play it. I tuned it just like a guitar, low E string and it seems fine.

This page has some very diverse tunings with some seeming to traverse over 1.5 octaves, and others starting at E instead of C.

http://www.oudcafe.com/stringing_and_tuning.htm

The oud brand is Gamil Georges. I remember my father buying it from a shop in Cairo in the early 1980s. Is there a problem with too much tension?

I bought some D'Addario strings from Amazon and it gives tension for the low string being F#, which is a full step above E, so the strings seem to be able to tension for starting at E.

Thanks.

Jody Stecher - 10-15-2013 at 03:31 PM

Standard guitar tuning of E A D G B E, is not as friendly for playing the music of the Middle East as the usual oud tunings are, but is excellent for playing much of the music of Europe and the Americas. Some very light gauge guitar sets might be not dangerous to an oud even though it is double strung since the oud scale is shorter than guitar. I'd say regular oud strings are safer but *not* tuned all the way up to guitar pitches . (D"Addario is misinformed about the pitches that ouds are tuned to. The strings are good but the information is bad.) But why do this? There is no musical advantage. You could tune a set of turkish oud strings on a turkish oud to C # F# B E G# C# and a set of arabic oud strings on an arabic oud to B E A D F# B. It would be absolutely safe and each preserves the same string relationship of pitches as EADGBE, but tuned lower. But again, *why*? There is no advantage to this tuning except for playing "western" guitar music. And for that the guitar is better. In other words, a good oud makes a poor guitar. And a good guitar is a poor oud.

JamalLocke - 10-15-2013 at 07:26 PM

Thanks Jody. You know I really don't quite understand how it would make much difference, especially since chords are rarely played on the oud. CFADGC, which is one of many standard oud tunings is different only by the placement of the odd 3rd interval among the other 4ths compared to EADGBE.

I'm going to make a controversial statement and hypothesize that the lower tunings have to do with vocal ranges of traditional performers which have tended to be men in Middle Eastern societies.

The funny thing is that the songs that I sing and play on the guitar, and learning on the oud are much easier sing for me on the oud with the lower tuning, so for me it definitely would have to do with vocals if I go with the lower tuning. The placement of the odd 3rd, I'm not so sure it makes any difference.