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I only tried it for a short time, it belonged to a friend, but I think the sound is definitely better than other material I've used, more natural sound, - horn is like fingernail, (which also means that it will wear out like a fingernail).

Good Day Sazi!! :wavey:

Does It wear out easily compare to Plastic or Tortoise? or a Better Longer Life.

BTW I'm Waiting for some new Rishas Blanks From MatthewW he send me some rishas!

Awesome!!! Thanks MatthewW :bowdown:

Shukran,

Philip :airguitar:

Sazi - 11-7-2009 at 02:46 AM

"Does It wear out easily compare to Plastic or Tortoise? or a Better Longer Life."(?)

I only tried it once, I've never had one but the owner said - "horn is like fingernail, which also means that it will wear out like a fingernail."

....and I dont think I'm gonna try wearing out a fingernail to compare with

FLIPAX - 11-7-2009 at 03:32 AM

....and I dont think I'm gonna try wearing out a fingernail to compare with

Inshallah they will make Rishas Made out of fingernails!LOL

Thanks Man! :applause:

Cheers!

Have a Healthy Long life Sazi!

-Philip :airguitar:

Sazi - 11-7-2009 at 03:38 AM

You too mate!, happy ouding :cool:

Sazi - 11-8-2009 at 11:42 PM

Inshallah they will make Rishas Made out of fingernails!LOL

-Philip

Funny you should say that, for ages now I've been trying to grow one little fingernail to stick on the end of a risha just to see if it sounds as good as I reckon it would... but everytime it gets almost long enough (but not quite) it breaks!! :mad:

FLIPAX - 11-10-2009 at 01:46 PM

but everytime it gets almost long enough (but not quite) it breaks!! :mad:

HAHAHAHA!

There are Some Glue for fingernails that classical players use, It helps the fingernails to become stronger and less of breakage!

Maybe we can use some glue!

Risha + Fingers = Awesome Combination

You can achieve Nice Hybrid picking for chords and change of timbre when you used Fingers instead of risha...........

Happy Ouding Man :applause:

Shalom,

Philip :airguitar:

P:S:
Anybody can Share Which Rishas are u using? Soft or Medium? How Critical Do u Choose your Rishas?

fernandraynaud - 11-10-2009 at 05:18 PM

Whom should we ask but the man they call Rich-in-Reeshas? I just got 60 (yes, sixty) reeshas in 4 different materials on e-bay for $2 plus $4 shipping. There is a classic black Delrin, and a yellowish hard plastic, and a thinner white snappy plastic, and a lot of thin ones poured of a gelatinous white substance.

So I started shaping them so no two are the same! I will be done some time next year. Yahoo! but I quickly discovered that the soft gelatinous white stuff bends too much, unless you hold it very tight like a snake behind the head it's never where you want it to be, and if you can quickly hit a bass string then a high high string with it, you are doing better than me. The hard yellowish is pretty narrow, and has no flexibility, so it's like picking with a pencil. The narrow thin Turkish clicky white also bends too easily, so that you have to hold it tight and short, and you can't clear say 1 cm of whippy snappy happy reesha. So far nothing's as good as a 0.5" by 6.5" by 0.030" black Delrin sanded down to the right shape and thickness. With sandpaper you can make 0.030" Delrin be either very stiff, or very thin and flexible, because Delrin is so tough you can make a paper thin edge and it will still last a very long time. The right shapes (for me) include 6 and 7 in my previous photo above. Maybe 6 at one end and 5 at the other, or 7 at one end and 9 at the other, but 6 and 7 together are good. The more click you want, the thinner the tip should be. The louder you want, the shorter the straight "leading edge" should be.

That is the end of today's report from the reesha front, Rich-in-Reeshas reporting.

Hoping for more pictures from other members!

[file]12264[/file]

paulO - 11-10-2009 at 10:49 PM

Delrin sounds cool, I've never tried it...I mostly collect cut off cable ties and shape them using broken glass and sandpaper...I have some mizrite blanks from Jameel..made a pick out of one -- very flexible, and good sounding. I've always used fairly stiff picks -- I'll get some delrin and have a pick making party, and let you know how I like it. The best picks I've ever made are somewhere in the universe...the best ones always seem to escape somehow

Thanks for all the pics, very informative.

Regards...PaulO

FLIPAX - 11-11-2009 at 07:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by paulO

The best picks I've ever made are somewhere in the universe...the best ones always seem to escape somehow

Hi! PaulO!

Hope You catch The Good One's!

So Stiff Rishas are better for paulO?

BTW Are PICKS or Risha? coz picks are for Guitar.. also ok for Oud But not My Thing though....

Can u Post Some Pics the one's You've Made?

Thanks mate

Philip :airguitar:

ameer - 11-11-2009 at 08:03 AM

My favorite material has always been zip ties. In particular, the thinner and more flexible end gives a great soft clicky sort of sound.

Sazi - 11-11-2009 at 03:18 PM

I was told Naseer Shamma often uses them too!

ameer - 11-11-2009 at 03:40 PM

My uncle who introduced me to the oud first started using them maybe 10 years ago. I thought he was crazy But ever since I started really listening to Farid it's been the only readily available material that gets me close enough to his attack.

Aymara - 11-11-2009 at 03:51 PM

coz picks are for Guitar...

They are called plectrum

Quote:

... also ok for Oud But not My Thing though....

But for me, because I mutated from guitarist to oud player :airguitar:

But there's only one, I use for both instruments ... THIS ... btw ... I hate standard guitar plectrums.

I showed it to Sabbassi, when I bought my oud. He was very sceptic to use a plectrum on an oud and I said: "This one is different, try grade 1 of the three. It's the softest." He did and said: "Great ... cut of number 2 and 3 and glue it to a stick to get a perfect risha."

There are two reasons, I use this plectrum: First, I have long arms, so with a risha and holding the oud normally, I would pick the strings above the sound hole, which sounds awfully soft. The other reason is, that I'm much faster with this plectrum and can achieve a risha like sound, but also variations ... hard click, soft click, etc..

fernandraynaud - 11-11-2009 at 10:29 PM

It's always the same with the guitar players, they want to start out all wrong, for this or that reason. If you are picking too near the soundhole there are reasons other than the plectrum being "wrong"! And these reasons will likely affect how you handle the oud. Isn't it better to start out the classical way?

We should have a polite but firm standard statement for all the nubies who explain why they play better with an ice cream spoon, or a rectal thermometer, and that statement is: Fine, but try it the way it's been done for millenia, THEN we'll talk.

Seriously, don't you think that a couple thousand+ years of smart people playing such a lute would have tried all sorts of plectra, and shown SOME intelligence in selecting the long flexible reesha? Now if you don't care about the oud's characteristic timbre, maybe it doesn't matter.

I've tried a lot of ways. I use my fingers sometimes, but it's for a specific non-oud-like effect, and I keep the reesha in my hand to get back to business, because I LOVE the way the oud sounds, and I KNOW I'm just learning.

Sazi - 11-11-2009 at 10:48 PM

Aymara - what drew you to the oud in the first place?

I suppose everyone's got a right to use whatever they want (even a rectal thermometer!

) but later you will find that you probably can't do some of the things you hear on oud that you like, because you need a risha for the technique. I also originally played guitar and initially felt just the way you do, in fact I just couldn't handle a risha at all, but believe me, it's necessary if you want to do all those lucious tricky sounding "good oud" bits, and it would be a lot easier to get used to it sooner rather than later.

Have fun anyway!

fernandraynaud - 11-12-2009 at 12:02 AM

Maybe this isn't true, but maybe it is: "it's not supposed to be easy. If it's too easy, you're doing it wrong."

Most likely you were drawn to the oud to learn new things, not the ones you already knew. :cool:

BTW, NearEast Manufacturing has Cow Bone Resshas back in stock. Over a dollar a piece, but think of how many cows they have to grind up to make a reesha!

They supply everybody else, so look for Bone Reeshas at your favorite deep discount webshop.

Aymara - 11-12-2009 at 01:47 AM

It's always the same with the guitar players, they want to start out all wrong, for this or that reason.

I knew, that this comment will come

Aymara - what drew you to the oud in the first place?

Because I look so cool, when I dress like a sheik, when playing oud

Ok, gotta get serious again ... it's mainly because of it's specific sound and the fretless fingerboard.

Quote:

I suppose everyone's got a right to use whatever they want (even a rectal thermometer!

) ...

Because I always was an autodidact, I created the following learning plan:

1. getting used to the fretless fingerboard and only play MY kind of music ... I make good progress here

2. improving on holding the oud correctly ... so far I prefer the technique with the crossed legs, the Trio Joubran uses

3. try different rishas and improve that technique ... though I expect, that I will use both in the future, risha and plectrum, depending of what I want to play

4. maybe try learning arabic music to give MY music a new "flavour" here and there

I bet, that many advanced oud players and trainers would declare my step-by-step learning strategy as a wrong approach, because it endangers me of gettings used to wrong techniques, but on the other hand this strategy has a major advantage, I develop first success much faster as when learning the traditionell way ... so my approach is much more fun.
And I think the risk of accustom myself to wrong techniques isn't too big, if the above mentioned phases aren't too long.

Quote:

Have fun anyway!

Thanks, I have a lot so far, especially because I hear my progress.

Sazi - 11-12-2009 at 02:09 AM

Well, whatever works for you has got to be the best way to go

nice to hear you're happy with your progress, I'm always my own worst critic!

Aymara - 11-12-2009 at 02:45 AM

..., I'm always my own worst critic!

Sometimes it's the same with myself, but I'm also a realist. And in this case (oud learning) I expected it to last much longer, especially to get used to the fretless fingerboard.

I even thought of making temporary fret markings, but after a few hours I noticed, that this will not be necessary.

So I'm very happy, that already most of my notes are gripped correctly on the fingerboard. I would have never expected to learn this sooo fast (a few days).

But for shure I'm still very far from perfect.

FLIPAX - 11-12-2009 at 10:45 AM

Most likely you were drawn to the oud to learn new things, not the ones you already knew. :cool:

NICE ONE fernandraynaud!

I Love this forum! :applause:

I tried Also Picks/Plectrum But it did not work especially when I was Playin-a-long or Listening to the masters!

Cheers Chris!

Hope You have a healthy long Life! :buttrock:

Philip

fernandraynaud - 11-13-2009 at 05:33 AM

OK, I have some cable ties to try. They are invariably nylon, so not very different from a common type of reesha. There's a cool Penduit cable tie model that ends in a wide flat area used to write on to label a cable bundle, and this can make a great plectrum. I'm working on shaping it. But the usual ones are pretty narrow. Can someone who likes cable ties please show a picture or specify the dimensions of the TieWraps they like?

(p.s. I like how the minimum order on cable ties from Panduit is Qty. 1000).

Ararat66 - 11-13-2009 at 09:37 AM

Now then

In reply to Fernand

'That is the end of today's report from the reesha front, Rich-in-Reeshas reporting.

Hoping for more pictures from other members!'

Here's my pic ... I was at Kelly's the other day and he has the same set up but without the help of an Olive branch and a Buddha.

Apparently Nizar Rohana said at our workshop earlier this year that it is much harder to find the right risha than the right oud.

I FEEL YOUR PAIN :applause:

[file]12296[/file]

ameer - 11-13-2009 at 12:23 PM

I don't have my oud near me, but I use the typical highly narrow ties.

FLIPAX - 11-13-2009 at 01:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ararat66

Apparently Nizar Rohana said at our workshop earlier this year that it is much harder to find the right risha than the right oud.

I FEEL YOUR PAIN :applause:

Thanks Ararat66! :applause:

Mr Nizar Rohana also Said that to me on His Last email to Me!

You Are Very Correct my Friend!

I HOPE TO SEE SOME MORE PICTURES! KEEP ADDING GUYS!

Shoukran,

GODBLESS!

Philip :airguitar:

BTW how thick the cable ties Should be?

Aymara - 11-13-2009 at 02:59 PM

BTW how thick the cable ties Should be?

On mine the forefront is shaped semi circle and it's 0.5mm thick and 5mm wide there ... the rest is thicker and a bit wider.

At first try I thought it's too thin, but now I find it just right ... it helps with tremolo.

FLIPAX - 11-13-2009 at 03:30 PM

On mine the forefront is shaped semi circle and it's 0.5mm thick and 5mm wide there ... the rest is thicker and a bit wider.

HI Chris!

Can U upload a Picture of Your Cable tie Risha?

Anybody also using cable ties? How Good Is It?

Quote: Originally posted by Ararat66

Hoping for more pictures from other members!

Thanks

Philip :airguitar:

COW HORN Rishas arrived!

fernandraynaud - 11-14-2009 at 04:30 AM

Rich-in-Rishas here, richer than ever! MORE rishas arrived today.

Cable ties are soft nylon, and can be easily shaped, but also wear pretty fast. No problem, just reshape the end.

I find there are two basic ways to use any risha. Pluck-through, and glide-attack.

The first is what you do if you push/pull the risha through the string, it's the logical way with soft and thin material. The only problem is that all of the tremolo then depends on how fast you can push and pull your wrist "through the string". It's like plucking with a playing card. The other technique I would call "glide-attack", and I think it's better because the risha's shape helps you and doesn't require the whole risha to snap through the strings at once. This is what I was trying to show in that little video. No matter what material I've tried, including nylon, only one shape for the tip works well for the "glide-attack", and that is a straight section that is beveled like a knife, with the material getting thinner and thinner at the tip. The risha at first rides ON the strings and then only the tip actually snaps through. This is a subtle difference, because in the end the risha does pluck in both cases, but in practice, for me anyway, it makes it easier to play and tremolo, faster and smoother.

I've been shaping cable-ties, but the exciting news is the cow horn rishas! A little bag of them arrived today in a big box.

NearEastern sells (and resells) them 6 to a package, about the same shape and dimensions as their black plastic (Delrin), a bit longer, with an occasional smaller one. They are about 0.030" thick too. Most are long enough to make two rishas per stick.

They are soaked in oil and remarkably tough. You can make an edge with sandpaper that is about as thin as on Delrin. The sanding experience tells you this is no nylon. It takes a while to grind down. There's a very satisfying feel to it, as the texture of horn is intrinsically crunchy and organic. Where the sticks were cut, you can see a feathery edge that shows how related to feather and horsehair this material is.

I tried picking-through with one, and found it no different from other materials. So I shaped one like my favorite Delrin rishas, with straight and beveled edges ending in a very thin tip.

As expected, the drag on the string makes a much richer sound than any plastic. It's a little as if the risha were bowing the strings. The breakthrough is for some reason louder than Delrin, so the overall first impression is a better and louder sound. If you make the edges thin and sharp, there's no grabbing and all attacks work much as with Delrin, just better and louder. If you make one side with a longer straight edge, it will play quieter. The end result is a richer timbre and a wider dynamic range than any other material so far.

Going back to Delrin, the Delrin edge feels a little too slippery, you can't get as "meaty" a pluck. Just trying it out but Ooooh, I think I LIKE these cow horn rishas ......

I don't known how durable these are in practice. Maybe they snap, but not so far. I don't have the heart to break one. They probably wear faster than Delrin (which is industrially indestructible and will wear a hole in ALL your ouds before it needs replacing). "Make sure to get some" before MidEast runs out again (I've been waiting for these since August).

[file]12306[/file] [file]12308[/file]

Rich-in-Rishas reporting .... I'm in love ....

Aymara - 11-14-2009 at 07:56 AM

As expected, the drag on the string makes a much richer sound than any plastic.

I made a similar experience today ... I found goose feathers in a craft supplies shop, where I only wanted to buy cork for building the homebrew pickup.

When I tried the feathers Pam said: "Wow, that really sounds arabic"

But they have a downside ... tremolo is extremly difficult, because the quill is very hard compared to my soft cable tie, with which tremolo works like a charm.

I'm not shure, if I really like these feathers ... further practice needed.

fernandraynaud - 11-14-2009 at 09:31 AM

I'm finding that cow horn on nylon strings really sounds good, much better than Delrin or nylon, that being plastic on plastic, it makes sense. And the shape and hardness are perfect.

On the wound strings, the windings polish the edges of the cow horn risha, and after playing a half hour, part of the best "scrape" is gone, and it seems it sounds half-way like Delrin. Maybe I'm just tired.

Ararat66 - 11-14-2009 at 01:45 PM

Just ordered a block of buffalo horn to experiment with - is this similar to cow horn? I've heard of buffalo horn mizraps so though I'd do the whole malarky, soak in oil, stand on my head whilst whistling dixie etc.

I'll post when I've done ... but it may take a while

Cheers

Leon

Sazi - 11-14-2009 at 05:19 PM

I read somewhere that Buffalo horn is preferable to cow horn, I think this was because the cow horn wears too quickly as Anthony has discovered.

Look forward to hearing about your results,

good luck, S

Aymara - 11-15-2009 at 12:53 AM

Regarding horn rishas ... I would expect them to have a good sound like the feather I tried, but that they are also very stiff, so that tremolo is very difficult. Correct?

Sazi - 11-15-2009 at 01:10 AM

... they are also very stiff, so that tremolo is very difficult. Correct?

I think it must be what we are used to, the Pyramid professional Risha is thicker than the standard one, yet professionals get great tremolo, no? I think if the risha is well shaped, thicker would be faster, once you get used to it, the material having less flex, thus responding quicker, not needing time to spring back into position... hard to describe...

Aymara - 11-15-2009 at 01:43 AM

..., the Pyramid professional Risha is thicker than the standard one, yet professionals get great tremolo, no?

Yes, but I myself never will, because on guitar it was always the same for me ... I always hated hard plectrums and do so still even after 30 years.

On oud it's the same ... with a soft cable tie the tremolo works like charm and with the hard quill of the feather it's impossible for me.

I will never get used to hard plectrums or rishas.

fernandraynaud - 11-15-2009 at 06:48 AM

Never say never. Look at how the risha engages the strings on the slow motion video. It's a very different technique. You are probably "plucking-through" with the whole risha. If you make the edge glide on the strings and only the end of the tip plucks, it's much much smoother than snapping the whole risha through. That's why the Pyramid pro rishas are the way they are. The user only needs to shape the end of the tip to their liking. If you send me your postal address by U2U, I'll try to send you a Delrin risha shaped optimally for that technique, and you will be pleasantly surprised.

The cow horn is holding up OK and sounds better than Delrin, even after some micro-wear. I wouldn't say it's wearing fast, my edges are thinner than paper. It's just that the sound is at its best when it's touched up every few hours with fine sandpaper to regain a little roughness on the edge. It takes a couple of seconds, so it may still be worth it over Delrin. Delrin never has that type of edge. I'm still testing. There's something special to the sound of the "organic" material, better than one plastic on another plastic (nylon), and I still don't understand why it's so much louder, but it is.

FLIPAX - 11-15-2009 at 09:11 AM

Hi All! :wavey:

Sorry about late replies I had been busy here lately!

Mr fernandraynaud is real Gentleman and a Kind Person. Hope's He Has More Health and Good Longer Life!

Keep Doin what You Doin! :applause:

Regaring about Chris Comment:

I will never get used to hard plectrums or rishas.

I Myself too are having difficulty on harder one's. Seem to be more harder to keep it controlled and well balance specially when making tremolo's and picking it consistenly thru out the passages.

Never say never.

Thanks fernandraynaud! :applause:

BTW Sir Can I Ask your First name? Thanks

If you send me your postal address by U2U, I'll try to send you a Delrin risha shaped optimally for that technique, and you will be pleasantly surprised.

Can You also kindly send some for me?.

I Will Send U2U......

BTW Thanks Again fernandraynaud!

For Your Efforts/Pictures/Advises In this forum It Really Helps me & also Everybody here that need some Advise!

Thanks!

Godbless!
Philip :airguitar:

Aymara - 11-15-2009 at 10:19 AM

Never say never.

Yes, Mr. Bond

But I'm a bit sceptic after 30 years of soft plectrums.

Quote:

Look at how the risha engages the strings on the slow motion video.

Yes, thanks, I watched it again and guess what ... now it works ... unbelievable. Though it still needs training.

I took a precision file and rounded the feather's quill a bit ... and I lowered the picking angle ... bingo ... tremolo works and the sound isn't too bassy as before.

Ok, it's not the historic eagle feather, but it's a nice substitute ... feels nice in the hand and looks cool

For those, who want to give a goose feather a try too ... mine is 15cm long, slightly bowed and the quill is 3mm ... 2mm at the top.

Quote:

..., I'll try to send you a Delrin risha shaped optimally for that technique, ...

Thanks, you're a real friend :bowdown:

Quote:

There's something special to the sound of the "organic" material, ...

I'll order some buffalo horn to give it a test ... there's a German dealer available ... how thick is your horn risha?

FLIPAX - 11-15-2009 at 10:28 AM

Hey Chis Just want to say Hi!

whats up Mate?

Anything cookin'?

How's Your Girlfriend regarding to your Ouding?

Cheers

Philip :airguitar:

Aymara - 11-15-2009 at 10:50 AM

Hi Philip!

Anything cookin'?

I'm full already

FLIPAX - 11-15-2009 at 11:05 AM

I'm full already

Good to Hear That :applause:

!

Hey Man Can U post Some Risha Pictures that U used?

Kindest Regards,

Philip :airguitar:

Aymara - 11-15-2009 at 12:11 PM

Hey Man Can U post Some Risha Pictures that U used?

Cable tie, goose feather and guitar plectrum ... and a centimeter scale below to get a better impression of the sizes.

FLIPAX - 11-15-2009 at 12:50 PM

a centimeter scale below to get a better impression of the sizes.

Thanks Man!

The Best thing was your centimeter Ruler! :xtreme:

Couldn't done it without u! LOL

How's the sound of Cable ties?

Nice To hear from you friend :bowdown:

Philip

Aymara - 11-15-2009 at 12:59 PM

How's the sound of Cable ties?

That depends how you hold it, because it's very soft at the top ... remember? ... only 0.5mm.

But if you hold it that way, that only 1cm is beneth your thumb, you can play relatively loud and pick harder.

BTW ... the original cable tie was much longer ... I cut it in half.

FLIPAX - 11-15-2009 at 01:32 PM

1cm is beneth your thumb, you can play relatively loud and pick harder.

Thanks Chris! :applause:

Did you not find the goose feather a bit weird to hold or use? Because of it feary thing! sorry my bad! LOL

Philip

Aymara - 11-15-2009 at 01:41 PM

Did you not find the goose feather a bit weird to hold or use?

No, it feels wonderful in your hand and I hold it like a risha, but as you can imagine it's more filligree. Definitly worth a try, I think ... even if it only may be to get a feeling, how historic playing with an eagle feather felt. But who knows ... some people might through away their rishas after testing the feather?

But maybe I should try a different technique

... look HERE ... feather rocks

FLIPAX - 11-15-2009 at 01:55 PM

But maybe I should try a different technique ... look HERE

Definetely worth a shot man! :airguitar:

BTW how did you get some goose feather? Did u just rip some feather out of your gooses neighbor?

Philip

Aymara - 11-15-2009 at 02:09 PM

BTW how did you get some goose feather?

I bought a pack of about 10 feathers for 1.30 € in a craft supplies shop ... they were labeled as Indian Feathers

... available in white, red, yellow, green and blue ... I prefer natural white as you can see.

Quote:

Did u just rip some feather out of your gooses neighbor?

I hope my tip doesn't end in cruelty to animals. It should be possible to buy similar feathers cheap in every country ... or maybe even get some free from a slaughterhouse.

FLIPAX - 11-15-2009 at 02:39 PM

I hope my tip doesn't end in cruelty to animals.

NIce one Man!

Its pretty tempting to just rip some feathers. LOL

Thanks for the tip :applause:

Philip

Aymara - 11-15-2009 at 03:22 PM

Its pretty tempting to just rip some feathers. LOL

Imagine somebody would rip you some hair for his violin bow ... that's how the bird would feel.

Ripping a feather incorrectly is very painful for the bird, might bleed like hell and the feather follicle might be destroyed, so the feather can't grow back.

FLIPAX - 11-15-2009 at 11:36 PM

Ripping a feather incorrectly is very painful for the bird, might bleed like hell and the feather follicle might be destroyed.

Dont worry man! I'm not going to do such an act. Although it should be with consent!

Does anybody here wants To add their Reesha Pictures? Please Feel Free To POST.

Thanks

Flip :airguitar:

Aymara - 11-16-2009 at 01:18 AM

Dont worry man! I'm not going to do such an act.

But maybe others feel tempted too, that's why I explained that a bit more detailled. To give this off-topic an end, let me explain a bit more:

There is a further reason for my explanations ... I'm moderator in a bird keeper & breeder forum and learned a lot about birds, especially parrots and parakeets, even medical treatment.

And I can tell you, that most people underestimate birds totally ... e.g birds have emotions like funereal, which I saw myself, when one of my birds died. And they are much more intelligent, than mankind ever knew. In a TV documentation film I saw an experiment with a crow to test it's intelligence. They put feed in a small cup with a handle above and placed this cup in a Plexiglas tube so the crow couldn't reach it. And they gave him a long piece of hard wire. And guess what ... the crow formed a hook out of the wire and fetched the cup out of the tube :bowdown:

This experiment revolutionized brain research.

Maybe this helps to see animals from a different more friendly point of view.

Oh, and because you like photos ... below one of my couples of Aymara parakeets, who are intelligent too ... they opened the screws of my Hi-Fi loudspeakers, which hold the cable and they put out the cable. Maybe they didn't like my music?

[file]12335[/file]

FLIPAX - 11-16-2009 at 07:10 AM

But maybe others feel tempted too

Nice to hear how you take care about your Birds!

Ok Lets Get serious Again and Back to our Treble Nylon Dilemma.

Thanks Chris! :bowdown:

You've always been Helpful Here!

Shalom my Friend,

Flip :airguitar:

A Little Off-topic for a Bit.....

Does anybody here can tell the difference of Nylgut and Rectified? Which one of them sustains longer?

Shoukran :wavey:

ameer - 11-16-2009 at 08:12 AM

I have tried both nylgut and rectified nylon on my Sukar. The first course was not too different, but there was quite a bit of difference in the second course.
With the Aquila it sounds like this.
But with nylon it sounds more like this.
Notice how the second course in the first recording sounds almost wound but still with that nylon flavor. It's a fairly subtle difference so it might take a few tries to hear it.
I can't speak about sustain because I have never done a proper side by side comparison where all other factors are equal or at least as close to equal as you're going to get.

FLIPAX - 11-16-2009 at 01:23 PM

Thank U ameer!

Sorry I have Post on the wrong Page It should be on my PVF string Thread.

Sorry my bad :shrug:

Thanks For the Tip :applause:

Shalom My friend.

Philip :airguitar:

charlie oud - 11-17-2009 at 03:15 AM

Hi Phillip :wavey:

, Finally replied to Your U2U, all the best with your risha research

FLIPAX - 11-17-2009 at 04:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by charlie oud

Hi Phillip :wavey:

, Finally replied to Your U2U, all the best with your risha research

Thanks Charlie! :applause:

Wishing You All The Best Good Long Life Man!

Salamat,

Philip :airguitar:

Aymara - 11-17-2009 at 05:40 AM

Hi again!

But maybe I should try a different technique

... look HERE ... feather rocks

Though this comment was originally ment as a joke, I tried Lloyd Miller's strange feather technique today by holding the feather upright between index finger and thumb nearly as a pencil ... sounds better, but tremelo is more difficult, though not impossible with enough training ... and it's important to sand the quill's top to a round shape.

The more I play with a feather and the more I get used to it, I like it more and more.

FLIPAX - 11-17-2009 at 06:08 AM

The more I play with a feather and the more I get used to it, I like it more and more.

Does the Feather wears faster than other material?

Hope's It stays Long so we can have a lot of fun with it!

It Looks Really funny Holding it that way!

)

Flip

Aymara - 11-17-2009 at 06:20 AM

Does the Feather wears faster than other material?

Yes, I think so, but I'm astonished how robust the feather's quill is.

Quote:

Hope's It stays Long so we can have a lot of fun with it!

I bought a set of more than ten feathers ... no problem if one weares out.

Quote:

It Looks Really funny Holding it that way!

Yes ... I'm still experimenting, which approach works best.

But what I like about the feather is, that it is the most traditional way to play oud.

But I also tried fingerpicking, which so far sounds best to my liking ... I would never have expected that ... man, that bass is deeeeeep

Cow Horn Risha GOOD

fernandraynaud - 11-19-2009 at 04:12 PM

I've been playing with cow horn for a week or so, and I definitely like it.

Black Delrin has one advantage, and that is its permanence. You shape it, and nothing short of sandpaper/broken glass or all out world war will change it more than a few microns. It's a superb material, and in the absence of horn, I think it's tops.

I have pheasant and turkey feathers. Hmmmm, well, not too exciting for me, anyway. No good grasping surface. A good comfortable grip is important. I think feathers were used to make rishas, but who knows how.

Horn is a subtle notch above Delrin. That oil-cured Cow horn from MidEast is remarkably strong. It's both flexible and stiff enough. It looks and acts much like a workable plastic. These are not brittle shaving discards off a hoof, or a holy-man's fingernail clippings.

The shape of the MidEast Cow horn blanks is excellent, similar to their Delrin. Averaging 8" by 7/16" by 0.032".
The sound is unique and very interesting. New timbres are achievable by varying the shape, where you pick, the angle, etc. Don't expect a dramatically different timbre from an optimized Delrin, but it's meaty, and you'll discover new ones.
The improvement is especially interesting on plain nylon. That unappealing "plastic banjo" sound that you get with ordinary rishas on nylon can be helped with cow horn.
Cow horn lets you create thin and raspy edges and surfaces which sound unusually good on attack, like partly "bowing" the string. Horn and feather and (horse)hair are similar materials, which "grasp" the string. For some reason, Delrin will not form a raspy edge. This "bite" fades gradually as the roughness of an edge starts to smooth out. It takes a couple hours of playing to fade, and only seconds to restore with a swipe on fine sandpaper. We're talking about sub-micron level, not visible wear. Visible wear is not likely a major issue, if you think about old knives with bone handles.
The snap of thin horn is much more interesting than any plastic. A thin tip holds up surprisingly well.
The dynamic range is unbeatable, for some reason. The soft sounds are delicate, the loud is LOUD.

Recommended. Worth trying for sure.

katakofka - 11-19-2009 at 10:16 PM

gentlemen : my advice is to use the AVAILABLE risha, ones that you get cheap and easy. There was time I used guitar picks because of their availability. It's all about habit and the time you spend to practice independently of the risha material.
http://www.instrumentalsavings.com/Oud-Pick-Turkish-10-Pack-p/oudw....
3.68$ the pack :cool:

and you save 1.22$ !

Aymara - 11-20-2009 at 01:57 AM

I have pheasant and turkey feathers. Hmmmm, well, not too exciting for me, anyway. No good grasping surface.

I think, "feather is not feather" ... there are different sizes of the feather itself and the quill's thickness and stability varies too. Surface is realy a key word. I tried several goose feathers of middle size to find out, that some lie good in hand and others don't. Some quills were useable, others horrible. But after using a fine file to form the quill's top to an equal round shape, I began to like it.

Quote:

A good comfortable grip is important.

Shure ... you have to try several feathers. I bet some people will prefer longer feathers and/or thicker quills. And it's a difference, if you hold it like a risha or more like a pencil, though I think Lloyd Miller's way of holding it, was as wrong as his way holding the oud.

I think, it would be interesting to do some research on the history of the risha, especially the eagle's feather ... I started a new thread about this topic. I think it's worth it.

Quote:

I think feathers were used to make rishas, but who knows how.

In my opinion make means in this case shaping the quill's top. But one has to be careful with shaping, because the quill is hollow ... a blood vessel.

Quote:

The improvement is especially interesting on plain nylon.

I got a similar experience with the feather. But the sound on wound strings is also different ... warmer, deeper.

Quote:

Horn and feather and (horse)hair are similar materials, which "grasp" the string.

Good hint.

Quote: Originally posted by katakofka

It's all about habit and the time you spend to practice independently of the risha material.

Good point. That's why I decided to first use my beloved guitar plectrum (I use this special one since years), until I realy get used to the fretless fingerboard to better concentrate to picking techniques and different rishas afterwards.

Quote:

3.68$ the pack :cool:

and you save 1.22$ !

They also have horn rishas, but look at the price :mad:

fernandraynaud - 11-20-2009 at 02:44 AM

"It's all about habit and the time you spend to practice independently of the risha material. "

I see. You think guitar picks are fine, as is the rubbery stuff? Katokofka, let's agree to disagree. For someone who already has a lot of "habit", it might not matter as much. But for someone who's learning, every little bit helps, and some shapes and materials are better than others.

Ok, it's getting boring. If it irritates you for some people to be "picky", and to experiment, please, at least don't spread confusion that no oud teacher supports. A guitar pick is poor for a lot of reasons, and limited in timbre. A flat risha that's over 10cm sits well in the hand and helps develop loose wrist motion instead of the fingers clutching the small pick.

Being long, flat and coming to a rounded point apparently works best for a lot of people, since ready-made rishas are all like that, and you can see it's what 99% of the people play.

The price varies hugely and is in any case not a huge issue. Collar inserts are not bad at all, and very cheap. You can make picks out of any plastic.

It's hard to be sure what they will ship mail order, you can get good Delrin or gummy-bear soft ones for the same price. In the US they all come from MidEast, resold at $15 or $3, it's the same picks. Shop for best price and confirm it's the very shiny black stuff taped together in little bundles of 10.

[file]12406[/file]

Same with the Cow Horn. Only one source, shop by price.

I stand by what I said, that the black Delrin blanks from MidEast are the most sturdy, easy to shape, and will work well for most people, more durable than nylon, polyethylene, vinyl, etc. The oiled cowhorn from MidEast also works well.

As to the sound, if you don't care, please let those of us who do, have the enjoyment.

Marcus - 11-20-2009 at 02:46 AM

Quote:

They also have horn rishas, but look at the price :mad:

$7.43 for 6 horn rishas its a fair price, or?

I think I`ll give them a try. :airguitar:

Greets

Marcus

Aymara - 11-20-2009 at 02:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Marcus

$7.43 for 6 horn rishas its a fair price, or?

Yes, shure ... I just wanted to say, it's about the double of the standard rishas.

fernandraynaud - 11-20-2009 at 03:17 AM

They last a long time, and you can get 2 rishas
out of the longer horn ones (8-9 inches).

What I have as MidEast Delrin is labeled
OUDQ
Oud pick, Plastic, 10 Pack
Mid east mfg Inc.
Made In Egypt
8-4473100961-7

and Cow Horn labeled:
OUDP
Oud Pick, Cow Horn, 6 Pack
Mid east mfg Inc.
Made In Egypt
8-4473100960-0
Also says: Bavly Music, made in Egypt
Distributed exclusively in the USA
by MidEast Mfg. Inc.

maybe someone can line up a cheap direct buy in Egypt?

FLIPAX - 11-25-2009 at 10:29 AM

Hello Guys! :wavey:

I Have Picture's here. These are the risha's I used. Unfortunate it's not that Boutique as others have. Hopefully I can Buy some different Materials.

I Use 5 different Risha's:

[file]12492[/file]

(Left to Right) Heavy to Light tensions:

1st Risha = Thick Nylon Plastic which is bendable but doesn't come back to its original position as fast as the thin one. This One Is More Harder for tremolo technique. and sometimes I get Caught on the Strings. And Sounds Fat and Warm.

[file]12494[/file]

2nd Risha = Jameel's Talonite Risha's. I sanded the tip as same shape as normal pyramide tip but a little thinner on the edges. Very Powerful and Loud.

3rd Risha = Pyramid Pro Medium, Has a good strong tension but enough to bend and be flexible also. Loud sound also, Has a Warm tame sound.

[file]12496[/file]

4th Risha = Medium/Light Tension sounds a little bit sharp but not much.For me Its sounds flat.

[file]12500[/file]

5th Risha = Plastic Risha from Al Assel Maurice shehata. Considered Light Tension Closed to Pyramis Standard light Rishas. This one Has More width.

6th & 7th Risha = Pyramid Standard Light, Very thin and Flexible. No Power and Volume and Sounds Very "Clicky"

[file]12498[/file]

Which Risha Material has a light tension on it but still flexible?

Please POST Some rishas u used. It woud be very helpful to see whick kinds do you use.

You can also check my other thread regarding " How to avoid a sharper attack sound" on risha's.
I Have Post Some Videos for u to see which ones best sounding for your ears. I Demo 4 Different Rishas.

Thanks :applause:

Feel Free to Comment!

Gracias

Philip :airguitar:

FLIPAX - 12-2-2009 at 08:08 AM

Which Risha Material has a light tension on it but still flexible?

Please POST Some rishas u used. It woud be very helpful to see whick kinds do you use.

Gracias

Philip :airguitar:

Aymara - 12-2-2009 at 08:31 AM

Which Risha Material has a light tension on it but still flexible?

My cable tie is veeeery flexible

FLIPAX - 12-2-2009 at 08:41 AM

My cable tie is veeeery flexible

Its hard finding a risha that is flexible but does not sound plastic at all.

Cable is the best. I have bought me some here in a local hardware store.

But i Need a wider width on the sides. Mines seems to be very slim. :rolleyes:

Nice to hear from you again chris?

How holidays? Hope your family are all fine

Cheers

Philip

Aymara - 12-2-2009 at 08:47 AM