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David.B
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I mean the "risha" between the fingers and the right arm parallel to the strings. This could be the primitive position on oud, isn't it ? Nowadays
position looks like the guitar position...
jenni, to resume I would say the risha was developed for a melodic instrument which use a lot of ornaments (like tremolos and returns). Other methods
are adaptations from an other instrument/music genre. As we saw for the lute, the "risha" melodic technique used in the middle age has evolved to a
fingertips technique under the impulsion of a harmonic/polyphonic music.
jdowing, does it mean the lute hold by O'Dette has no basses tuned in octaves ? So the different colors of the strings just help to distinguish them ?
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jdowning
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David.B - I cannot distinguish string colour from the image but the lute appears to be a typical example of the instruments made in Germany (for the
German lute repertoire of the period) during the first part of the 18th C by makers like Sebastian Schelle. These instruments typically had 13 courses
- the top two trebles being single, running to a separate peg 'rider', and the lowest 2 or 3 basses again running to a separate raised bracket mounted
on the pegbox.
The basses are relatively short (compared to the extended neck lutes of an earlier period) so might typically be octave tuned (gut?) pairs. Also, it
is possible that metal overspun strings (newly invented at the end of the 17th C) may have been used perhaps as single basses?
The lute thumb under technique seems to be a direct development from plectrum playing. This is most apparent when very rapid passages are executed
where the right hand (held almost parallel to the strings) moves up and down as if using a risha except that it is the thumb and forefinger that
strike the strings alternately.
There are probably some video clips of Paul O'Dette (and other professional lutenists) using this technique on YouTube or elsewhere on the Internet.
Easier to understand when seen demonstrated than explained!
This might be a good technique - albeit from ancient times - useful to the modern oud player interested in using risha and finger tips.
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jdowning
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Here are some short video clips - posted on the Lute Society of America website - of Jacob Heringman, Ron McFarlane, and Adrea Damiani using the thumb
under technique. See under 'Instructional Material'
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/download/index.html
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David.B
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jdowning,
Just to confirm your words : "13-course Baroque lute by Andrew Rutherford, New York, 2002, after Sebastian Schelle (1727)".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G23_pcCZkZg -> That's right ! After 01:35 Paul O'Dette becomes the Farid El Atrache of lute  
Very interesting alternative, indeed...
Thanks for all these great infos 
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jdowning
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Farid El Atrache of the lute no doubt! There are some great lute players out there - like O'Dette - capable of performing some of the most demanding
works of the vaste surviving lute repertoire (from the early 16th C to the mid 18th C).
I also admire Jacob Heringman's relaxed, 'laid back' style of performance evident in the video clip noted in the previous post.
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fernandraynaud
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Ironically the bovine horn material is chemically and structurally much like fingernail, same stuff. Feather-stoffe, if you could get a nice slab to
work with, would be similar too. Maybe pterodactyl toenails would be useful (Mojo, rattlesnake hide and shrunken skulls come to mind too -- who do you
love?)
Horn sounds a little different from Delrin, which is a thin (0.030") plastic widely used for harpsichord plectra (because it sounds/acts like
bird-quill). I can hear the difference, but barely. When mentioning the return, your teacher was probably thinking of the thicker Pyramid plastic
rishas, which are more like guitar pick-stoffe.
The guitar pick is small and stiff. The long risha SHAPE and flex give you a leverage and snap you can't get easily from anything else. I find chords
and bluegrass arpeggios play best with fingers, but tremolo and lead lines work best with a horn risha.
I HAVE tried rishas on fretless bass, electric and acoustic guitar. It's interesting but it's not that special heavenly match. Nothing like a risha
working those double strings!
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Aymara
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Yes, but fingernails are usually thinner and have a different shape. And as we found out in the risha discussions, not only the material affects the
sound, but also the thickness, the shape and the angle between risha and string.
With my preferred feathers it's similar ... I need to file the quill's top round and not every feather sounds as good as the other, depending much on
the quill's thickness.
Oh and btw ... a downstroke with a fingernail sounds very different from the upstroke usually used on guitars. This wasn't mentioned so far.
| Quote: | | The guitar pick is small and stiff. |
Yes and no ... there are very different types avallable, stiff and soft, different shapes, plastic or even horn. I have one plectrum, which sounds
very similar to plastic rishas.
| Quote: | | ..., but tremolo and lead lines work best with a horn risha. |
Usually yes, but I bet, it's just a matter of practice ... listen for example to the fast and perfectly sounding tremolos in the lute videos.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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jdowning
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Luthier and lutenist Martin Shepherd has a good article on the 'thumb under' right hand technique (as well as other articles about historical strings,
pitch standards etc)
Recordings and tablatures of the early lute repertoire too!
http://www.luteshop.co.uk/index.htm
I must spend some time going through the content of his web site as there seems to be lots of useful information there.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
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Just had a little accident last night that required trimming the length of a horn risha to try to use what was left. I was a little surprised to find
that unless it is long enough to at least protrude a bit from the end of the hand, my risha technique really suffers. In other words the normal risha
hand motion is best if the "tail can flap" and if you don't have to clutch it in the small of the hand. Same with thin black Delrin. The hyper narrow
nylon ones approaching the size of cable ties, or the thick Pyramid plastic ones, I dunno.
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