oudy allen
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My new oud - Sukar Oud Custom Made
Hey guys,
I just wanted to have your appreciated opinion on my latest purchase. I bought this Sukar oud, which was custom made in 2011, on eBay for 400 euros.
Basically it is model 213 with a few modifications (e. g. ornaments, soundboard etc.). What do you think? Is it worth it?
Link: http://www.ebay.de/itm/221022516667?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_t...
Here you have some sound examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZUA6WNRV1k&list=UUs0Cir1o9I0Z4t...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cTsZdx2TN0&list=UUs0Cir1o9I0Z4t...
Thanks in advance for your opinions..
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Giorgioud
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Beautiful oud, and a gorgeous sound too.....if the action is at the right height (not too low but not too high, and from the sound clips you provided
it seems to be verging more on the high side, which is good because it provides plenty of natural reverb), the 400 Euros you paid for it is a very
good price, a bargain deal in fact.........congratulations!
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fernandraynaud
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Looks good to me, I think I like it better than Omar's new floating bridge oud, but you get to find out. At that price it's quite fair. This is
actually very much like Sukar's stock "roundhole ouds". The action is adjustable within a narrow range, hopefully it's centered in the area you care
about.
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oudy allen
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Giorgioud, fernandraynaud,
thanks for your opinion. In fact, this baby is going to be my first oud. As you already mentioned, it was quite a fair deal. The guy for which this
oud was initially custom made said that this instrument is based on model 213. It has just a few modifications, such as the special ornaments on the
fingerboard and the bowl as well as the soundboard which is made of cedar.
There's just one thing I didn't get - what exactly do you mean by the action of the oud? What is it and when is it at the right height? Sorry, I'm a
newbie.
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Brian Prunka
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Seems nice, and good sound. 400eur is a more than fair price, IMO.
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Giorgioud
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Hello Oudy,
the so-called "action" (I know in Italy and France they use the same English term for it, and it applies to all string instruments) is the distance of
the strings from the fingerboard. Or better, the height of the strings from the fingerboard.
If the action is high, the instrument will sound louder but, as the strings are more distant from the fingerboard, it will be harder to play.
Conversely, if the action is low and the strings are closer to to the fingerboard, the instrument will sound considerably lower in volume, but it will
be easier to play, because you can "mesh" the strings down easier.
The accepted right action for an oud is between 2 1/2 and 3 mm. Past that mark it might become quite difficult to play......lower that that and it
might have no volume......which is a bit of a bummer if you're playing in an ensemble.......
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fernandraynaud
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Sukars and Fadi Mattas have an adjustable neck.
On a guitar you can adjust the string height above the fingerboard (the "action") in many ways, from truss rod to saddle screws, worst case by
re-shaping the saddle. The standard oud has no saddle, and is not adjustable, except a tiny bit, by touching up the string loops or sometimes drilling
new holes in the bridge. The action affects not only the fingering style/ease, but also the timbre.
As an instrument ages and settles, the action often changes, mostly rising. To correct that requires sawing off the neck and resetting it back to the
body. In the Middle East this is not too expensive. In the West it is. So an adjustable action is highly desirable.
Fadi Matta has the best design, where the neck is mounted on two metal rods with a third threaded rod with two "wheels" on the neck that either lock
or allow the angle that the neck meets the body at to be changed, so the action can go all the way down flat or rise up to say 7 mm (as measured at
the neck-body junction).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TT4ukNKpCc
at about 4:00 he shows the mechanism. There used to be a video demonstrating the adjustment, but I can no longer find it.
Sukars use a similar neck mounting, with a more limited range of adjustment by means of a butterfly nut reachable inside the body against the head
block. Tightening the nut delicately while pulling gently back on the neck lowers, and loosening it raises, the action, over a range of a few
millimeters, say from 2mm to 5mm, that being the usual playable range. As a Sukar ages and settles, the range of adjustment, more narrow than on a
Fadi Matta, often shifts a bit, so it might not reach as low or as high as one might want. To correct that is not a huge job, as the neck mates to the
headblock on 3 rods, as in the Fadi Matta design, and it can be pulled, the mating surfaces sanded to extend the adjustment range, and the neck put
back on.
If you search on the forum you can find pictures of how the mechanism works. This feature makes both the Fadi Matta and Sukar ouds (I think) highly
desirable, especially if you live or travel in varying humidity. The available change in timbre is also very useful, with a high action (say 4mm)
sounding sort of more percussive "Egyptian" and a lower action (say 2-2.5 mm) sort of more zingy "Turkish". Traditionalists say an oud should be all
wood, that a perfect oud's action doesn't change, or that sawing off the neck is no big deal. The Sukar you got sounds like the action is set
relatively high. You will have the opportunity to experiment with adjustment. Read up on how to do this so you don't strip the threads or break the
retaining nail. It only takes very small changes at the butterfly nut, and once it reaches as low as it will go, forcing it tighter can only do
damage.
Since you didn't know about this feature, I'd say you were doubly lucky. Looks like a nice oud too. It's indeed based on a 213, you can see it
here:
http://www.oudsukar.com/New/en/products_en.php?cat=oud#
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oudy allen
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Thank you very much for your explanations, guys!
Now I know what is meant by "action". I will report to you whether the action is at the right height for me, once I receive the insrument. The seller
today told me that he added a rosette, which he ordered at that time, in case I want to decorate the round hole. Is there a difference between open
holes and decorated ones in terms of sound quality?
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fernandraynaud
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You would never put a rosette on the main hole on a normal sukar unless you incorporate some quick release mechanism, because the action adjust
butterfly nut needs to be accessible. That's why you never see a Sukar with full rosetting. I'm surprised the seller would suggest it. Could it be
that 1) he is unaware of the adjustment? 2) that this sukar was built without it? Or 3) that it's broken?
Anyway, any quick release mechanism on a rosette is likely to be troublesome, e.g. it may rattle.
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oudy allen
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Oh, I see. Actually, the oud was built without the rosette. He told me that he ordered the rosette afterwards (probably to give it a try). He told me
that added the rosette to the shipment, just in case I want to decorate the main hole with it. However, what you are saying sounds reasonable to me
and therefore I'm not going to put it on. Thank you, fernand!
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Brian Prunka
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I don't see a problem with the rosette.
Once you have the neck set how you like, you shouldn't need to adjust it for years. If you do, it's no big deal to pop out the rosette and put it
back as long as you used good practices to glue it in the first place (in other words, have someone experienced do it, don't just stick some superglue
on there yourself).
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fernandraynaud
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Brian, I respectfully disagree. A player with one oud might well adjust the action differently for different purposes. Granted, as we ossify we tend
to settle into a specific setup on a given oud, but our friend is more likely to want to try different things. Although I'm partial to a very low
setting, I raise the strings on my Sukar model 14 on occasion for a specific timbre. Changes in humidity and ageing also seem to work on the
soundboard and affect the action, so it's nice to have control, even if the Sukar mechanism is more limited than Fadi Matta's. I would vote for
keeping it open, at least for a good while.
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Omar Al-Mufti
Oud Junkie
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Hi Guys,
This is Omar, the one who sold the oud.
I have considerably good experience with Sukkar ouds. I order 4-6 oud per year. Just can't keep an oud for long time. i love change.
Anyway, regarding the rosette, I would like to add that after the oud settles for a couple of months and you are happy with it, you can attach a
rosette. Any possible change in action will happen: 1- Gradually 2- will take some time. You wouldn't need to re-adjust before 5 or 6 years. For me, I
attach the rosette using hyde glue ( very low chrystal content in comparison with water). I'm a mechanical engineer and like those crafts stuff. I
need like 10 minutes to detach a rosette from the oud with zero damages to the rosette and the oud. Ibraheem, my good friend, doesn't provide
rosettes by default since he knows most of people have nothing to do with those skills. If you think you are able to do it, just attach it. Even if
you can't do it yourself, any luthier/violin maker or even skillful carpenter could do it (with steam or soldering iron).
Again, you do not change the action every day. you do it once every half decade.
Cheers,
Omar
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Omar Al-Mufti
Oud Junkie
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one more thing on Fernand's comment, the action adjustment isn't usually set up to what the player likes, it's up to the best soud/reverb/finger
movement the oud could give you.
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