Ahmed
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Yurdal Tokcan seminar, Arabic to Turkish tuning
Hello dear fellow oudists,
I will be attending the Labyrinth oud seminar this summer with Yurdal Tokcan, and looking forward to it.
However, one question has been bugging me - and that is the question of tuning and switching from one tuning to another.
I normally play with an Arabic high F tuning (FADGCF), I suppose the lessons will focus on Turkish method and therefore I would have to retune my oud
to Turkish tuning (C#F#BEAD or something similar).
First of all, would this be necessary? I would think it would be quite difficult to change to a different tuning from the one you are used to,
especially with the intervals not being exactly the same. I play a lot by ear, so my fingers sort of 'know' where to go, with a different tuning, that
will no be so easy.
An added complication is that Turkish music uses a different annotation from 'standard' methods.
Also can anyone who has attended this seminar in the past in the past share their experience: do the lessons focus more on techniques, or theory, is
it only Turkish or are other methods also explored?
Anyway, your thoughts, advice, recommendations as to how I could get the most out of the classes would be highly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ahmed
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sylvainbd
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Hi ahmed,
I have the same problem !
I am used to play in arabic tuning (DGADGC).
That's why I change my tuning to get same interval that in turkish tuning C#F#BEAD without change my set strings !
I got AEADGC. By this way I'm getting used to the new fingerings.
But now i have to buy a set of turkish strings in EABEAD or C#F#BEAD.
See you in crete 
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spartan
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Yordal is a great master and teacher. However he plays and teaches the turkish style and technique with the turkish tuning called Bolahenk.
Usually the most common tuning at this time is C#F#BEAD
But I guess you can tune the 2 bass strings different in order to be more close to the position of the fingers you use in Arabic style . I guess a
DGBEAD will be more comfortable.
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BUT
tuning your arabic oud in Bolahenk could make serious damage in your oud due to the tension.
It will be better if you have a second oud and tune it on Bolahenk
It will be necessary to tune an oud on Bolahenk, otherwise you have to play Bayati from E, Rast from D etc.
This isnot so hard but you also have to use different fingers from the techniques that they use on the seminar
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There is a difference in the intervals and in many maqams (seyirs etc) between arabic and turkish.
In fact the difference isnt about intervals but in the mood, feeling.
For Example there is a different feeling in Bayati, or Mahur etc
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As far as I know Yordal's seminars are based mostly on technique, but I didnt participate at any seminar.
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Anyway I think that Yordal's seminars are always maste classes , and you are going to learn a lot and maybe you are going to enrich your playing.
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By they way if you go there in Crete you have to convice Ross to bring Arab oud seminars on a regular basis.
I think there are many good teachers
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sylvainbd
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Ahmed, Check this extract video of seminar 2009 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IumfRCrFMVE
Apparently, all players are in turkish tuning ...
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reminore
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hi ahmed - to get the most out of your time together...best to re tune. you will play warm ups for about one hour or more in the morning...and then
be introduced to a new piece for the rest of the morning each day. by the end of the week you will be playing the repertoire (more or less!). i
could not imagine keeping up in a group while playing in a different tuning! i don't know if the turkish style of note ornamentation is something
you wish to incorporate into your playing style - but yurdal is a master of carpma (ornamenting) and it is the single most valuable thing i took away
from my week with him last year...enjoy!
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Ahmed
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Dear Sylud, Spartan and Reminore
Thanks a lot for your replies, advice and explanation, I guess I will have to re-adjust my tuning then 
And I'll better do it sooner so that I get used to it by the time the seminar starts.
Well nonetheless it seems like a ver interesting seminar, and I'm really looking forward to it, I will see you there Sylud!
Ahmed
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suz_i_dil
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Hello,
I now get used to those tunings :
arabic D (or C ) G A d g c
arabic F ( or G) C D g c f
turkish E A B e a d
So that i can keep the same fingering, anyway I learned the piece from listening to an arabic or turkish player.
For turkish player playing with bass tuning in B, like Yurdal Tokcan or Necati Celik, I transpose with a computer program (transcribe), up to 3 half
tones higher. I get like this a fingering I can use with my arabic tuning in D. This fingering is the same that would use a turkish player, playing
the same piece but with a tuning with bass E.
I don't know if you noticed but usually, turkish player who use a tuning in B usually play the piece a 4th lower than player with tuning in E do.
Actually, main idea is anyway how do you play your rast in f, c or d. Like this you can keep same fingering from one tuning to another.
Regards
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Giorgioud
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Guys, sorry to intrude and to be a party pooper, but:
I hope you have a Turkish oud to start with, in order to change the tuning from Arabic to Turkish.
It's a well known fact that it's quite dangerous to put a Turkish tuning on an Arabic oud. The Arabic oud is build to whitstand only a certain amount
of pressure. By putting more pressure than it's due there's a risk for the bridge to come unglued. Also, the Arabic luthiers study the phisics of the
sound in order to get the best amount of resonance and natural echo with the Arabic tunings. The Turkish luthiers do the same with their own ouds. So
a Turkish tuning on an Arabic oud is bound to sound dull, apart from the danger mentioned above.
If you really cannot get a Turkish oud to go to the seminar with, just apply a capo in the second position of your Arabic oud. Make sure it's a good
capo, that has a good grip on the strings without making any dents on the back of the neck. Scores of professional musicians in the Arab world use it
when they play in an orchestra. Check the first 10 second of this video http://youtu.be/X77A26u8zBI The oud player is playing an old Algerian classic, Ya Rayah by Dahman El Harrachi which, like many Algerian songs,
it's in (tonic) D. The same principle can be applied on Turkish music. This way you'll be able to play at the seminar without the paranoia of damaging
the oud or having to tune for the lesson and untune after it to release the tension all the times............
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Khalid_Salé
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I use a capo for playing along with Turkish stuff. It works fine, unless you need to go way up the neck, which i try to avoid anyway for some reason
 .
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suz_i_dil
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You can use any kind of tuning on any kind of oud if you use the right strings for it. String tension depends on the string gauge, the stringlength
and its tuning.
But sure you are right if you mean tuning turkish an arabic set, high or medium tension, on a 60cm stringlength oud.
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reminore
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yes, a low tension set should take care of things...i also would recommend a way to record the sessions - one girl last year would even set up an
imac directly across from yurdal and record everything- leaving absolutely nothing to the imagination! not very romantic, but four months later
quite useful! for myself, an iphone was sufficient...
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Ahmed
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Dear all,
Thanks again for your replies.
As I was explaining to my friend, who's a classical guitarist, there is so much variation and schools when it comes to the tuning of the oud, as
opposed to the guitar which is more or less standard, and that also makes it more fun (and difficult!).
I will go for suz_i_dil's idea of maintaining the same fingering, so I will already start by dropping the low F on my oud to an E, that way I get used
to the intervals between each string when I switch to Turkish (fourths, as in C#F#BEAD).
Giorgioud - the tuning I currently use is already quite high (FADGCF), not the standard Arabic tuning so if anything I will be going to a lower (and
lesser tension) tuning when I switch to Turkish.
Not a bad idea to take a camera and record the sessions, I'll make sure I do so
All the best,
Ahmed
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