David.B
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Audio-Technica AT4047MP
A few days ago, I bought this LDC microphone. This is my first one and I can't make comparisons. What do you think about these recordings?
http://soundcloud.com/david-brocard
Any suggestions?
It has been three days since I am struggling with the placement, still not sure...
Also, I built this kind of stuff:
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Aymara
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I think you bought a very good mic, which has the right potential to capture especially the oud's bass frequencies very naturally ... this is, where
most mics (even large condensers) fail 
That this mic is able to capture the whole frequency range of the oud can be nicely heard in your first example recording.
I think your recording setup is nice, but can be improved with a noise gate, which filters unwanted sounds/noise.
Maybe you'll find further inspirations in my home recording thread.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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David.B
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Thanks for your reply,
I've wanted to send it back because of the shockmount, but I kept it because of the way it captures the bass frequencies, 'very naturally', as you
said. The microphone is placed on the shockmount and not fixed, it can not be used upside down ... I had to move away my keyboard 
I used your thread a lot to buy this mic, especially your recoding with the AKG C3000. I wanted something warmer (without tube) and less sensitive
because of my noisy environment. I did some EQ and I like to add more presence (+12dB at 10000Hz), plus a touch of reverb. I'm still not satisfy by
the way I use the compressor or the gate, I have to improve my skill ...
Now I'm working on practice, in order to record something interesting. I'm looking forward to share more studio tricks 
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David.B
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Quote: Originally posted by Aymara  |
That this mic is able to capture the whole frequency range of the oud can be nicely heard in your first example recording.
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You mean the omni pattern?
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Aymara
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I think, that's a common problem with shock mounts.
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..., I have to improve my skill ...
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Who said that audio engineering is easier than learning oud? 
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I'm looking forward to share more studio tricks
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Then you better search through recording forums, e.g. the Reaper or Cubase forums. There are some very talented technicians online.
Have fun exploring
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Aymara
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Yes, that omnidirectional recording had the most intense bass.
PS: You might be able to solve the shock mount problem with self-adhesive tape.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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David.B
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The microphone weighs 524 grams and costs a little more euros, I'd rather not take the risk ...
Did you try this kind of filter?
It might be interesting with the omnidirectional pattern.
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Aymara
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No, I don't think, it's of much use in a home recording environment, where I have a lot of unwanted noise .. like that f...ing bus, that comes every
10 minutes 
I think your selfmade filter will be of the same use and good enough. It might be even better, because it's higher.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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David.B
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You're not so far away, train station, airport, cars, my stupid rooster in the morning and the imam from the mosque next door! A powerful mix
Good, you confirm my thoughts ...
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fernandraynaud
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Yo, David! The mic is nice, congrats. What I hear is that as expected the figure 8 has the most bass, but easily gets muddy. The Omni has the most
"air", is a little thin, but the most transparent. The cardiod is not a bad compromise, and you can control the bass boost with the distance to the
source.
If you have another mic, unidirectional, even if it's not as good, you can combine the figure 8 and the directional in a mic'ing position they call
M/S. That gives you stereo with a lot of 3 dimensionality, even if you only use a small amount of the inferior directional mic signal. You use an M/S
decoder on your DAW to convert it to stereo and adjust the soundstage, width and positions. M/S is widely used because you have control over more
spatial aspects long after the recording is done. What DAW are you using?
The baffles you made probably don't cut out much of the actual problem noise, like the neighbors, buses, etc. But what they do is cause a "closed"
feeling. There are good aspects to recording in a corner of a room so sound bounces off the walls nearby and it sounds more open.
Congratulations on the purchase and enjoy!
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Aymara
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With my AKG I made the best experience with a mic position around 20cm above the body/neck joint and the mic pointing in the sound hole direction.
That might be worth a try with the AT too.
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But what they do is cause a "closed" feeling.
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In Germany we call that a DRY sound. The advantage is, that you can adjust the "room" afterwards in the DAW by the desired reverb. Some reverb filters
have presets to simulate different room sizes.
BTW ... I think it's time for me to buy a second mic, to try your stereo tips.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
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Chris, it's really not just a question of "dry". When you box in the mic/instrument you can hear/feel that there are specific reflections from the
enclosing baffles with a specific spectrum. In a true anechoic chamber you get "dry". In a box you get recognizably "boxed". You can even get IR files
for such spaces that you can feed into a reverb. And you haven't gained much in isolation.
I forget what you have, does your present mic have a figure 8 setting? One mic's got to have it, important so you can do M/S, and M/S is wonderful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone_practice#M.2FS_technique:_M...
The center mic just needs to be cardioid, or omni if you really don't want proximity effect.
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Aymara
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What are IR files? I'm pretty shure IR doesn't mean infrared ... just joking here, because I'm a hobby infrared photographer, too. So what does IR
mean in this context?
| Quote: | | I forget what you have, does your present mic have a figure 8 setting? |
I have the AKG C3000 which only has a cardioid pattern. For specs use the link on the lower right of the AKG page.
So far I have NO experience with stereo recording ... always did that by mixing so far.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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David.B
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| Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud | | Yo, David! The mic is nice, congrats. What I hear is that as expected the figure 8 has the most bass, but easily gets muddy. The Omni has the most
"air", is a little thin, but the most transparent. The cardiod is not a bad compromise, and you can control the bass boost with the distance to the
source. |
Perfect, I wouldn't say better to express what I feel!
| Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud | | If you have another mic, unidirectional, even if it's not as good, you can combine the figure 8 and the directional in a mic'ing position they call
M/S. That gives you stereo with a lot of 3 dimensionality, even if you only use a small amount of the inferior directional mic signal. You use an M/S
decoder on your DAW to convert it to stereo and adjust the soundstage, width and positions. M/S is widely used because you have control over more
spatial aspects long after the recording is done. What DAW are you using? |
Before I bought this mic I thought about a M/S combination with a Beyerdynamic m160 and m130, but I'm not sure about the potential of my preamp
(Apogee Duet 2). So, it makes me come to my DAW: Logic Pro 9.
| Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud | | The baffles you made probably don't cut out much of the actual problem noise, like the neighbors, buses, etc. But what they do is cause a "closed"
feeling. There are good aspects to recording in a corner of a room so sound bounces off the walls nearby and it sounds more open.
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What you can see on the photo is now all along the walls (10 pieces). It's less "boxy" and I still can't hear birds in my recordings, I'm not sure,
but I think this is due to the low sensitivity (7.9 mV/PA).
| Quote: Originally posted by Aymara | | With my AKG I made the best experience with a mic position around 20cm above the body/neck joint and the mic pointing in the sound hole direction.
That might be worth a try with the AT too |
My best result is about 30cm (maybe more) in front of the body/neck joint, the microphone directed toward the junction. I tried what you wrote, but
it's less "spatial", or "equilibrate". I like the right balance between the soundhole and the fingers.
Ditto.
I've got 3 mic in mind:
1) AT4047SVSM, Cardio only, less expensive than Multi-Pattern but more sensitive (17.7 mV/PA).
2) AT4047MP, same one, the omni in the middle is interesting.
3) sE Electronics Gemini II , 12.6 mV/PA, should be OK, and this mic should add some air.
...
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Aymara
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I don't know MAC DAW's, so just to make shure ... maybe give Reaper a try too. There's now a OSX version available, even in 64Bit. I'm a real Reaper fan ... I love the forum there and there's so much free stuff available.
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I've got 3 mic in mind ...
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I think the Rode M3 might also be worth a look, because it's cheap, often used for acoustic guitars and it's great on stage ... might come in handy
some time
I also thought about the Rode NT5 Dual Set, which might be nice for stereo recordings ... though ... for this purpose it would be great to build a
"Kunstkopf" (dummy head). I was tempted to try dummy head stereo / binaural stereo since the late 70, when I first heard such recordings with a Sennheiser HD 414 ...
Haha, and when you use this head phone, you have to wear this trousers
PS: @Tony: I bet, you know the HD 414 too?!
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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David.B
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I 100% agree with a Rode nt5 matched pair. Benjamin Spitzmueller (BeaverCreekStudio in Germany) advised me these microphones for oud.
X-Y stereo or LDC + SDC, different options, interesting ... Then I take some LSD to fit into your trousers for a psychedelic experience with a HD 414
screwed on my head and IR will become clear 
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Aymara
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But they won't give us that natural bass like we get with our large condensers.
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Then I take some LSD ... and IR will become clear
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Well, my IR looks like you're on LSD, but you don't need it really to enjoy it
Look HERE, if you're interested in a drug-free trip
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
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IR is Impulse Response. It's a WAV file that captured the reflections and reverberation of a real space that is then recreated in the DAW using a
"convolution reverb". You can use say the IR of the inside of a piano, or a garbage can, or Notre Dame. There are many good IR-based reverb plug-ins.
In Logic you have the Space Designer. Reaper has ReaVerb. Altiverb is very good.
M/S recording captures (on two tracks) the center w/ a cardiod, and the two sides w/ a figure 8. In the DAW you convert that to stereo, but you can zoom and pan over the sound-stage AFTER recording. Deep subject. I find that MS is incomparably superior to
most other mic'ing techniques, so it's important to have one figure 8 capable mic. You can always use it other ways too. David, your Apogee Duet is
fine. Now that you have the figure 8, I would get a less expensive cardioid, a tube mic if you can find one. Oktava tube mic are very nice. The MKL
2500 is a great mic under 400 euros.
Yes, I still have my 414 headphones and use them regularly in the studio, I just got another new cable and more foamies for them. It's amazing, I've
used them for something like 35 years and they're still excellent. I expected the plastic headband to break, but they refuse to die. Oh, and you can
(also) see a M/S mic application here. The red felt past the clavichord bridge is to dampen the (very strong) sympathetic resonance of the string
"stubs".
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Aymara
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So I already used it without knowing what IR really is ... thanks for the
info.
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Yes, I still have my 414 headphones ...
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Stunning headphones (very lightweight, good sound and greeeaaat sound stage), especially for the price ... mine died around 20 years ago after it was
discontinued.
I then first used a different Sennheiser and now I'm a great Beyerdynamic fan ... the DT-880 (linear) and DT-990 (raised bass and trebble) beat every
Sennheiser in my opinion. But these babies aren't cheap.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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David.B
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| Quote: Originally posted by Aymara | | Well, my IR looks like you're on LSD, but you don't need it really to enjoy it
Look HERE, if you're interested in a drug-free trip |
I like this kind of trip
And I know now what an Aymara looks like
| Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud | | IR is Impulse Response. It's a WAV file that captured the reflections and reverberation of a real space that is then recreated in the DAW using a
"convolution reverb". You can use say the IR of the inside of a piano, or a garbage can, or Notre Dame. There are many good IR-based reverb plug-ins.
In Logic you have the Space Designer. Reaper has ReaVerb. Altiverb is very good. |
Thanks for the explanation Tony, I use Space Designer but I didn't know "IR".
| Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud | | M/S recording captures (on two tracks) the center w/ a cardiod, and the two sides w/ a figure 8. In the DAW you convert that to stereo, but you can
zoom and pan over the sound-stage AFTER recording. |
Thanks for the links, it will save me time.
About headphones: my actual first pro one is an Ultrason pro 900, S-Logic is really nice, but I bought it because of the Ultra Low Emission technologies. The shield works really well, I'm very
sensible to electromagnetism, nevertheless, I can spend the whole day with it without any headache.
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Aymara
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Haha ... guess what ... they got their name from an indian tribe, that still exists in South America. But that's a different story
Looks very promissing ... never heard about it so far.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
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I'm quite used to the 414s, I've used them for (correction) 40(!) years, and I trust them. The interesting thing is that they have not degraded, and
you can still buy the cables and earcups! I do like Beyerdynamic "cans" a lot. I also have a Beyerdynamic 740 mic I was lucky to get to evaluate and
keep at factory price before they went into volume production. A lot of German gear and software is unquestionably top notch.
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Aymara
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I know, what you mean ... it took me years to find a substiture, I'm really satisfied with. I never understood, why Sennheiser discontinued this model
... I think it was too cheap for it's quality.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
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And FWIW David's Logic DAW is much more complete than Reaper. It's the old e-magic/C-Lab software a few generations evolved. I used to use Notator.
Now I use Logic and Cubase/Nuendo. All German stuff.
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Aymara
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Except the horrible Mac on which it runs
But I bet the free Reaper plugins run in Logic too as in Cubase.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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