David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 629
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Devon, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Maqam Lami (again)
I'm still a bit confused about Maqam Lami. It is mentioned on another thread that it generally starts on the fourth and finishes on the tonic, but
what is the usual tonic for this maqam?
The booklets accompanying on of Munir Bashir's and Rahim Alhaj's CDs show a scale based on G, but the liner notes for the Jamil Bashir "Arabesques" LP
give the tonic as A. (However, the latter does mention that the fourth is stressed more than the tonic.)
I guess the difference could be due to the tunings they used, i.e. ensuring the tonic and fourth corresponded to open strings? I'm not sure what
tuning Rahim uses, but Munir Bashir's was apparently CDGCFF and Jamil Bashir's was DEADGG (a whole tone higher), so this might make sense.
It would be interesting to know how the well known Samai Lami by Salah al-Kuwaiti (I think) is notated. I found some sheet music online for a
different Samai Lami, and this was based on D.
David
|
|
|
Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2939
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
|
|
I think in low C Arabic tuning, it would normally be in D.
In high F tuning, more likely in G.
If I recall "Al Burtuqal" by M.A. Wahab is in Lami on D.
|
|
|
Arabic Music Sheets
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 12-15-2012
Member Is Offline
|
|
Lami is a maqam typical to maqam kurd or Phrygian ,,,, but its 5th note is b ........
|
|
|
suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1064
Registered: 1-10-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Usually the tonic is in D, taksim beginning indeed on the 4th so on the G.
This is how I play it on a oud tune in C.
But on a tuning in F you are more likely to hear the tonic in G.
Notation you see in Arabesques booklet is turkish way of notation. I mean rast note is written G, while dukah a A, huseyni a E ... Etc etc
|
|
|
Arabic Music Sheets
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 12-15-2012
Member Is Offline
|
|
we can say its scale ...... D , Eb , F , G , Ab , Bb , C , D ........
|
|
|
David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 629
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Devon, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by suz_i_dil  | Notation you see in Arabesques booklet is turkish way of notation. I mean rast note is written G, while dukah a A, huseyni a E ... Etc etc
|
I'm not sure about this. If I've understood the notes in the booklet (in French) correctly, it says that Jamil tunes his oud a fifth higher than
standard Arab tuning, so that he actually plays Saba and Bayati starting on A (husayni) rather than D (dukah), and Sikah on B half-flat (awj) rather
than E half-flat (sikah). In that case, the notation corresponds exactly to what he plays, and is not done the Turkish way, which I think would be
written a fourth higher than what he actually plays.
So, working backwards, if the notes show Lami with A as the tonic, then Jamil would play it on A, which would be a 5th higher than it would be played
on the normal Arab tuning, i.e. with a tonic of D as you and Brian mentioned.
All the best
David
|
|
|
suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1064
Registered: 1-10-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi David,
I think your point is right. But I would put question of tuning and question of notation on 2 separate sides.
I mean the tonic of lami is actually dugah and not a D, and A or whatever.
Usually a player will play tonic of lami on his 3rd course, dugah, whatever the tuning. My teacher told me you can transpose a makam in whatever
tuning, it will be always the same makam.
But with a limitation for that, for exemple Rahat El Arwah which is in fact only a transposition of huzam maqam. So the name of the makam may
change.
But let's keep on the question of tuning and what we hear.
Check for exemple Serif Muhiddin Targan ud method, for the question of ud tuning he says:
1st course: Gerdaniye
2nd: Neva
3rd: Dugah
4th: Asiran
5th: Yegah
6th: Kaba Dugah
Turkish write dugah as an A and arabs as a D.
Serif Muhiddin Targan wrote it as an A.
Then what we might hear differs:
arab tuning in C: a D
arab tuning in F: a G
one tone higher than F, Jamil Bashir tuning: a A (which meet the turkish notation)
modern turkish tuning: a E
Notation is as it is and tuning refers more to an artistic choice. Jameel tuning is indeed a fifth higher than arab tuning, 1 tone higher than usual
iraki tuning (in F). Indeed this choice fits exactly turkish notation and what we hear in A 440hz (gerdaniye = G, dugah = A ...etc etc)
Or at least this is how I understand it
Regards
|
|
|
David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 629
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Devon, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi suz_i_dil
I don't know how much the difference in tonic for Lami has to do with the pitch of dugah in the various traditions... I suspect that Lami was
introduced to the wider Arab world by emigre Iraqi musicians carrying the vocal-based "maqam" music with them, rather than through Munir Bashir etc
and his oud tuning. The maqam ensembles traditionally don't seem to feature oud very prominently, so it is doubtful that the features of this
instrument would have had much relation to the choice of tonic for Lami in Iraq, which seems to be G or perhaps A?
More likely, the composers or musicians in Arab countries outside Iraq liked what they heard and thought how they could adapt Lami to their way of
doing things (including the oud). As Lami is based on a Kurd tetrachord, and Maqam Kurd is traditionally on D, then probably D was the obvious choice
of tonic. There are no Arab (non-Iraqi) maqams based on G or A as far as I'm aware, so that would rule those two notes.
This is all just theorising, and I could be completely wrong, but it's interesting to discuss this anyway!
All the best
David
|
|
|
suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1064
Registered: 1-10-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi David,
indeed history of makam is something really interesting, how they spread, developp, change with history. I would be glad to learn more about this
history.
Regarding lami, what I heard is less romantic...Sorry, maybe I should keep it for me ?
Some say it is because of the way of construction, a kurd on A (la) and a kurd on E (Mi). I you chek the scale it is kurd on A and then on D, but when
playing it they often make a modulation, with a kurd tetrachord on E.
Nothing sure about, but if true that would mean this makam is rather contemporary.
Anyway...There are many others makam with a great history, that bring us toward Iran Turkey and midle east 
|
|
|
David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 629
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Devon, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by suz_i_dil | Hi David,
indeed history of makam is something really interesting, how they spread, developp, change with history. I would be glad to learn more about this
history.
Regarding lami, what I heard is less romantic...Sorry, maybe I should keep it for me ?
Some say it is because of the way of construction, a kurd on A (la) and a kurd on E (Mi). I you chek the scale it is kurd on A and then on D, but when
playing it they often make a modulation, with a kurd tetrachord on E.
Nothing sure about, but if true that would mean this makam is rather contemporary.
Anyway...There are many others makam with a great history, that bring us toward Iran Turkey and midle east |
Hi suz_i_dil
I see that in the notes to the Rahim AlHaj CD "When the soul is settled", he says that "the Beni Lam [tribe?] believe the maqam is theirs by right of
tradition".
He also reiterates the well-known fact that Al-Qubanchi introduced Lami in the 1920s, and that some believe that he created it, while others think it
came from medieval theory texts. (Why the hell didn't they just ask him while he was alive??)
I also heard the "La"-"Mi" explanation before, but I don't know whether Iraqi musicians were familiar with this solfege notation in those days, or
would have named a maqam so prosaically?
All the best
David
|
|
|
ameer
Oud Junkie
Posts: 464
Registered: 9-14-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
There's a rather long series of autobiographical Qubanchi recordings from what I'm guessing are a series of general biographical interviews floating
around on sama3y.net. I wonder if he mentions the issue? I couldn't tell you as it's a pretty long series and I didn't understand most of what he said
anyway.
|
|
|
Masel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 367
Registered: 6-18-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
maqam lami in a few sentences.
the scale is D Eb F G Ab Bb C D. doesn't have to be D of course but lets call it dugah (though iraqi maqam doesn't use these turkish names i believe).
anyway the melody starts on neva (G) and ends on dugah (D). common modulations are lami on G - transposed one fourth up and flattening the D to Db,
bayati on G or D, saba on G or D and saba zamzama on G or D. it's pretty small maqam. there is also a very charachteristic ending: G F Eb G F Eb Eb D
D.... if you know what i mean..
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
