rojaros
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Holes In the Top for Hiding String Ends
The Albert Mansour Oud played by Mustafa Said had little holes in the top directly behind the tie block, still in the birdge wood, allowing to hide
some centimeters of the string under the top. That was in case a string breaks so that this reserve can be pulled out and the remainder were still
long enough to be used as a string. Good in saving money on the expensive Pyramid custom strings.
So he left some string length on the peg and some string length under the top.
Is that a practice shared by others, too? Did anybody drill such holes by himself. How did you go about, if you did?
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rojaros
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Bump!
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rojaros
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Nobody any idea? Can't believe this question is so singular...
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hussamd
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Is that really an issue? I was able to leave only 2mm of the string sticking from the peg hole, and even bent that with my finger for the upper
strings. I have no unruly strings sticking out.
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Dr. Oud
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This seems like a poor solution for the problem. Only the wound 3rd strings break anyway, and always at the bridge knot in my experience. If the extra
length is behind the bridge, where's the length to use? I wind the extra string length on the peg, in good order and away from the peg box walls. This
leaves plenty of length to re-tie the string at the bridge. The nylon strings I cut with enough length to half hitch on the peg, they never break. The
wound strings are inserted in the peg shank hole without any sticking out and the length wound cleanly on the peg. The 6th bass string can be cut to
avoid too much string on the peg. They never break anyway.
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rojaros
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Quote: Originally posted by Dr. Oud  | | This seems like a poor solution for the problem. Only the wound 3rd strings break anyway, and always at the bridge knot in my experience. If the extra
length is behind the bridge, where's the length to use? I wind the extra string length on the peg, in good order and away from the peg box walls. This
leaves plenty of length to re-tie the string at the bridge. The nylon strings I cut with enough length to half hitch on the peg, they never break. The
wound strings are inserted in the peg shank hole without any sticking out and the length wound cleanly on the peg. The 6th bass string can be cut to
avoid too much string on the peg. They never break anyway. |
Thanks, sounds quite reasonable. Mustafa Said uses wound strings throughout the whole oud, that's why he has more strings to take care of that could
and do break. I saw myself how one of these strings broke - and not at the bridge but somewhere near the nut. That's when some extra length on the
bridge side comes in handy ...
best wishes
Robert
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bulerias1981
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I met Mustafa in Beirut in 2010.. I thought he uses only gut strings. Unless hes changed his mind since. He was against "plastic" strings. I think
plastic strings personally give a better overall sound.
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rojaros
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I met him at an oud workshop in Mannheim this year and he definitly played Pyramid custom (lute) wound strings for trebles cc and gg, on the rest I
don't know but had the impression that the whole set was Pyramid custom (lute) wound strings. He explicitely told me that the thin wound strings do
break more often and that's why he uses these little holes to have some spare string on both ends.
I saw one string breaking and saw im replacing it, I even helped him with that, and he put some 5 cm or so in the hole in the top. So this is what I
saw, and he also talkked to me about that idea of having spare ends on both sides.
As I also wanted to try these wound trebles I wondered if it is difficult or even dangerous to put these little holes in an already made oud as a
modification.
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bulerias1981
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I have not yet had an oud string break on me.. I'm not kidding
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Oud Freak
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| Quote: Originally posted by rojaros | The Albert Mansour Oud played by Mustafa Said had little holes in the top directly behind the tie block, still in the birdge wood, allowing to hide
some centimeters of the string under the top. That was in case a string breaks so that this reserve can be pulled out and the remainder were still
long enough to be used as a string. Good in saving money on the expensive Pyramid custom strings.
|
As discussed with Mr. Albert Mansour, the purpose hiding the tie holes is purely aesthetic. It indeed makes the oud looks much more neat.
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Brian Prunka
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In my experience, around 90% of string breakage is caused by a poorly cut nut.
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rojaros
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| Quote: Originally posted by Oud Freak | | Quote: Originally posted by rojaros | The Albert Mansour Oud played by Mustafa Said had little holes in the top directly behind the tie block, still in the birdge wood, allowing to hide
some centimeters of the string under the top. That was in case a string breaks so that this reserve can be pulled out and the remainder were still
long enough to be used as a string. Good in saving money on the expensive Pyramid custom strings.
|
As discussed with Mr. Albert Mansour, the purpose hiding the tie holes is purely aesthetic. It indeed makes the oud looks much more neat.
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I quite believe that to be the original idea, but Mustafa Said put it to a very practical use, and he certainly is a no nonsense man...
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rojaros
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maybe you're not playing cc and gg as wound strings?
These are the most vulnerable, followed by dd, and that's about it...
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rojaros
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May well be true, but the other 10% could be expensive, too, especially with wound cc and gg...
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hamed
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rojaros, where are you acquiring gg and cc wound strings? I imagine the wouldnbe extremely thin. I didn't even think they existed.
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rojaros
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| Quote: Originally posted by hamed | | rojaros, where are you acquiring gg and cc wound strings? I imagine the wouldnbe extremely thin. I didn't even think they existed.
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These are the thinnest Pyramid custom made lute strings, available on order from Pyramid or through your oud maker, maybe...
You mail Pyramid and tell them your scale length and desired tension, and they calculate whether they have a suitable string for you.
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oudalally
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I can't comment on this practice on the oud, but certainly with guitar, I'm very wary about reusing strings that have broken at any point.
It does become irritating if a new string breaks, and even with the temptation of re-attaching it, I tend to lean toward replacing it entirely.
Granted, on acoustic guitars with bullet or hoop ends, threading the string into the body isn't really an option, but on classicals where the bridge
is similar to that of the oud, it could be done although I'm not sure the convenience of not having to replace the entire string would be worth
drilling the required holes into the top.
I've read that some oud makers won't allow apprentices to handle the top prior to its fitting for fear that the oils from the skin will affect the
sound, so surely drilling into the top will have a detrimental effect on the tone if they weren't allowed for at the design stage? I'd be curious to
know whether any oud makers actually allow for this practice and pre-drill the tops.
I'm also assuming that for this approach to work, the string would have to break fairly close to the nut, which as Brian Prunka commented, this could
indicate a badly cut nut digging into the string.
I guess you would have to weigh the pros of convenience against the cons of tonal change and the possibly weakened state of a string which has already
broken, although the string should be pre-stretched and not need as long to settle after it's reattached.
I had an old spanish guitar years ago which had a small thread of glue which has come lose of the inside of the body. Whenever I struck either of the
bottom two strings, the rattling of the glue was very pronounced and proved offputting to the point that I simply stopped playing the guitar.
I'd speculate that this would be more noticeable on the oud with it being so much more resonant.
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rojaros
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Thanks for your thoughts, Oudalally.
I do reuse guitars strings (on classical guitar) if I can and never encountered any problem. I'm doing it not because of meannes but because a new
strings usually sounds bad in the environment of an old set, so actually, on a classical guitar, one would have to change the hole set because of one
broken string. Fortunately, if the bridge bone and nut is well made, strings snap very rarely.
As to the oud, I'm not sure about the issue of tonal change if you don't happen to hit a brace and weakening it whil drilling. There might be
aesthetical resons not to do it, but actually it looks really cool.
And, after all, Albert Mansour is not some Oud maker, he is arguably a great luthier who know what he's doing...
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