majnuunNavid
Oud Junkie
Posts: 622
Registered: 7-22-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dude, where's my Oud?
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Mixing Oud for live performances solo and ensemble
Hey everyone,
How do you cope with mixing the Oud for live performances? I have performed in many different spaces, with western ensembles, and persian ensembles,
and not once have I ever seen optimal results.
The best results that I have are during solo performances, because generally the Oud is heard no matter what.
I particularly dislike the role the Oud has in Persian ensembles. The Oud never cuts through, and generally sounds empty.
In terms of high, mid, and low frequency on a mixer, what are some of your optimal suggestions to really bring out a true balanced sound of the Oud?
What to enhance and what to minimize?
Thanks!
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1378
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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There is no One-Size-Fits-All answer. First of all a good and appropriate mic is needed, not just any old thing. Second, a sound engineer who is free
from pre conceptions is needed. HAH! they are hard to find but engineers who actually listen to the actual instrument whose sound they have been hired
to reinforce do exist. If a pickup or piezo DI or other such devices are used instead of a mic, then there is no hope of the oud sounding like an oud.
It will be heard but it won't be an oud sound. In a raucous setting, like a wedding party, this may not matter. Most EQ adjustments should be made to
compensate for the sonic characteristics of the performance space. Once that is done no compensation whatsoever should be done for the oud. If it
ain't broke, don't fix it. But it has to be Not Broke to begin with. Each oud will respond to sound reinforcement differently. Any frequencies that
need to be rolled off or increased are strictly on a case-to-case basis. Common sense will dictate what to do. One good trick: to get a sound to "cut
through" , increasing the highs may be less effective than removing the obstacles. Lower mids are one obstacle but care and moderation are called for.
The chief obstacle is the wrong mic. Even an Azeri tar will lack definition with the wrong mic. Another obstacle is wrong mic placement. Another
obstacle is the musicians themselves. A player who does not take an active role in making sure the oud is heard in an ensemble has less of a chance of
success than one who does. Another obstacle is the presence of another instrument in the same tessitura as the oud. Oud and guitar can conflict. A
good sound engineer can sort this out, but they have to be willing to listen to the actual oud and actual guitar as played by the actual players. Most
will not. They will say "I know what a guitar sounds like", and they don't.
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majnuunNavid
Oud Junkie
Posts: 622
Registered: 7-22-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dude, where's my Oud?
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Thanks Jody, that gives me some good things to think about.
I've never thought of the notion of "the right mic for the Oud", but I have experimented with mic placement because my Oud doesn't have rosettes and I
use a mini condenser mic, so I can put it where I get the best sound.
Do you have any recommendations for mics that might be decent for the Oud?
My challenge is knowing what direction to give the sound person in ensemble situations. During a sound check I rely on other people to tell me how the
Oud sounds, because what is coming through the monitors is not always the same as what's heard in the hall. And this I can only tell after hearing a
recording of the performance or video.
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1378
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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A mini condenser might be ok. But the real sound of your oud, or its best sound, is not necessarily what is heard less than an inch from the
soundboard and that is what the mini condenser is limited to. I'm assuming this is the kind of mic that attaches to the face of the oud somewhere,
yes? If so you are limited to placing it where it can clip onto the edge of one of the sound holes. It could be that is where the best sound is when
using that mic, but maybe not.
As for the right mic for your oud, that is no different than the best strings for your oud or the best oud for you. "An oud is an oud is an oud" is
not true. "Any kind of strings will do" is not true, although it may be true that every kind of string will sound good on *some* ouds. And it's the
same for mic-s. Some are good for one thing and bad for another and some are versatile and some are excellent at one thing only and some are bad for
everything.
Since the "house" (the venue) has been "rung out" for feedback etc prior to the soundcheck what the audience hears and what the recording indicates
are rarely the same. And there are also the variables of whether the recording is made through the board, using the same mic's as the sound system is
using or whether, for instance it's from another mic in the audience,such as the mic of a video camera. You might sound wrong in the recording and not
have been wrong in the concert. The best thing you can say to the sound person is to ask them to listen to the sound of your oud with no mic at all
and ask them to produce that same sound but louder.
A well made mic with a cardioid or hyper-cardioid pattern placed about a foot in front of the soundboard might be a good starting place to explore.
Something that picks up the vibrating air in front of the entire soundboard, rather than one spot only. If you place your ear near different spots on
the soundboard you will hear a great variety of sounds. But the ear of a listener close by hears the entire range of the these sounds. A mic may be
used to pick up that entire range. But the pattern should be wide enough to do that but not so wide that it picks up the other instruments in the
ensemble. An experienced sound person will be aware of all this and will have a variety of microphones for use in various situations.
For ensemble work, a dynamic mic might be more effective than a condenser even though it may not be quite as colorful. It depends on so many
variables.
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
Posts: 771
Registered: 4-26-2009
Location: Beacon, NY
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Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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If you want to go the acoustic route, an instrument with good projection is the answer, not easy to find. I dedicate my practice to making instruments
that project for professionals who do a lot of state work.
If not, you can always mic. The oud usually is a problem being heard in an ensemble, I'd know this from performing in various places.
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majnuunNavid
Oud Junkie
Posts: 622
Registered: 7-22-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dude, where's my Oud?
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Jody that's great advice, to let the sound guy HEAR the instrument acoustically before sound check.
My Oud is pretty loud as far as Ouds go. That's awesome John, louder Ouds are nice to have in this new age we live in. I'm looking forward to trying
yours out one day!
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