hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
gesi baglari - return to old topic - turkish speakers take a listen
Hello everyone, some years back I posted a version of Gesi Baglari sung and played on oud by an Armenian in 1917. At the time I could not make out the
Turkish words but after a lot of study I think I have done so. Turkish speakers, let me know if you think I am right!!!! (see my transcription below)
Unfortunately I cannot post the song to the forum as it is too big. However here is a link to my soundcloud page where I uploaded it:
https://soundcloud.com/hkezel/kesinin-baghlari-atma-anam-merdjan-garabet-effendi
Song: Kesinin Baghlari
Artist: Merdjan Garabet Effendi (oud, vocal)
Violin: Kemany Minas
Kanun: unknown
Recording: New York City, November 1917, Columbia Records
Kesi’nin bağları güllerin çayır
Ana ben gidiyorum her yer başını kayır
Ana ben gidiyorum sen başını de kayır
Kaynana imansız, güveği gavur
Atma anam atma şu dağların ardına
Kimseler de yanmasınler anam yanar derdime
Bu dağın ardında has nane biter
Ateşim yanmadan, anam, tütünüm tüter
Ateşim yanmadan, anam, tütünüm tüter
Bana da bir hal olur ölümden beter
Atma anam atma şu dağların ardına
Kimseler de yanmasınler anam yanasın şikâyet
I believe Merdjan Garabet Effendi was one Garabet (Charles) Merjanian, who was born in Kayseri in 1895, immigrated to New York in 1913, and died in
1962. He was a shoemaker, at least in the beginning. But I am not sure about any of these biographical details.
BTW I was told "Ateşim yanmadan tütünüm tüter" means "my tobacco is smoldering/giving off smoke without my fire ever having been lit", which
is a proverb or saying that means someone has reached the troubles of life without the joys of youth.
|
|
|
Andy
Oud Junkie
Posts: 314
Registered: 10-5-2004
Location: MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: excellent
|
|
Hartun, looking at some of the words tütünüm tüter = tütünüm tütler = I yearn for tobacco, translated from Google see my U2U
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
thank you andy, but the turkish lyrics websites have:
Gesi bağlarında bülbüller öter
Ateşim yanmadan (anam) tütünüm tüter
Bana bir hal olmuş ölümden beter
This isn't exactly what Garabed is singing but the second line is the same. The first line I had to figure out on my own for the most part although
"has nane biter" is used in other verses of the song. The third line is the same but it sounds like he is saying "olur" and not "olmus" which is not a
big change.
A turkish speaking armenian, when I sent him the words confirmed that Ateşim yanmadan (anam) tütünüm tüter is a Turkish
proverb/saying/phrase. Meaning what I said above.
|
|
|
DivanMakam
Oud Addict
Posts: 41
Registered: 4-28-2015
Member Is Offline
|
|
It is really hard to understand the lyrics in that recording.
The instruments are almost overshadowing the voice and in addition to that the gramophone record scratch makes it extremely hard to understand the
words.
Well, I listened 3 times now and I think your lyrics are correct.
At least all sentences make sense and I wouldn't know what to change in the lyrics.
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
thank you divan makam!!!
what is the meaning of yanasin sikayet...is that grammatically correct?
|
|
|
DivanMakam
Oud Addict
Posts: 41
Registered: 4-28-2015
Member Is Offline
|
|
"Şikayet yanmak" means literally "to call for a complaint"
Translated it means "to shout for a lamentation".
So somebody is moaning, lamenting, wailing, complaining.
"yanasın şikayet" is some kind of an imperative form.
"Sen yanasın şikayet" would mean "you shall lament".
Or in this case "ana", she, the mother shall lament. So:
"anam yanasın şikayet" is "my mother shall lament".
(the -m suffix to the word "ana" makes it to "MY mother")
Is it gramatically correct? Well, the whole lyrics is a bit odd and because no commas are used, it sounds a bit strange and the used language is
rural. But, it is correct.
To sum it up, there is a bride who is brought to Gesi (a place in the area of Kayseri) from far far away. And she is telling her story how difficult
it is for her. So it is a sad story she is telling and she is mostly talking to her mother, that only she can understand her condition/situation.
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
Thank you DivanMakam
Im well aware of Gesi as my fathers family is from the village of Fenese (Kayseri - Develi). Many Armenians in Detroit are from Evereg and Fenese
which were the two Armenian quarters of Develi. There are also many from Efkere which no longer exists but was next to Gesi. In Efkere was the Surp
Garabed Manastir which was where the Bishop of Kayseri lived. There are some from Kayseri proper as well.
Why does she say however "ana ben gidiyorum sen basini kayir"?
|
|
|
DivanMakam
Oud Addict
Posts: 41
Registered: 4-28-2015
Member Is Offline
|
|
No problem.
Ah, I see, so you actually have a connection to Kayseri and you try to live in some kind of a way the (Turkish) culture from back home? Or is it just
coincidence you are interested in this song from Kayseri?
Anyway, what does that line mean? The used language is local, so it makes hard to understand the meaning of "kayır".
That line has a connection to the line before, because the writer just wanted to use that ambiguity of the word "kayır".
And also to use the same words but in a different meaning. Because of rhyme.
"Ana ben gidiyorum her yer başını kayır
Ana ben gidiyorum sen başını de kayır"
In the first line the word kayır is used as a noun. It is a common word (not much used though). It means a "desert place". Like a waste land, a
sandy place, like in those old American cowboy movies. Wherever you look, you see a solitude. And Kayseri or the region is like that (maybe you know
it from your father).
"Her yer başını" is a very rural language. It means "completely everywhere" or "totally everywhere". The word "baş" means head but
nobody is using the word "başını" like that in the first line. There it means sth. like "totally, completely". I assume it comes from
"toes up to the head" Like when you talk about snow or something, you say "there is so much snow, it comes up to my head".
In the second line, the word "kayır" is a verb, but actually the imperative form. The problem is, that used meaning is very local/rural, because
normally the verb "kayırmak" means "to advantage someone" but in a negative way. Like when your boss advantages another employee, because of her
gender whereas you deserved the promotion or something.
Anyway, that is not the meaning in here. Just this is always the case when you use the verb "kayırmak".
But in this case it has a different meaning, which only exists in local language.
It simple means "to grieve", "to sorrow" or "to feel sad".
So the mother's head should feel sad, or to grieve.
Literally she says "you grieve also your head".
That "de" should be a "da" and it means "too" or "also".
So the mother should also feel sad like her, too.
To sum it up:
"Mother, I go (away), totally everywhere is a waste land,
Mother, I go (away), you grieve also your head. (you, too, should feel sad)"
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
DivanMakam,
Thank you DivanMakam,
and yes, naturally being from a Kayseri family I am interested in the songs from there. The Armenians from there particularly liked this song Gesi
Baglari, but over the years they have forgotten Turkish and they have forgotten many of these songs. The only songs they still play and sing are dance
songs, not songs like this.
i had thought the singer was telling their mother to "protect your head" thank you for clarifying the meaning of kayirmak in local language.
we the Armenians in the US have been playing old songs in Turkish and Armenian for the past 100 years since we left Anatolia. for the most part our
songs are from Ottoman times. but they also used to buy Turkish records, imported to the US, up until the middle of the 1950s, so they know some of
the famous songs from the 30s and 40s especially. Although some songs, I mean sung by Turkish artists, were not necessarily so famous in Turkey, but
the Armenians here liked them and they became very well known here. so yes it is to continue to live with the culture of our home. it is also why we
play the ud, and other instruments. my father has never been to anatolia neither has my grandfather (i think my grandfather visited istanbul), they
were all born in detroit, michigan, USA, but all of my father's grandparents were born in the village of fenese which is part of develi. we dance to
armenian and turkish songs, and eat the foods of anatolia. my mother's father's parents were born in harput and her mother's parents in sivas. so my
backround is 1/2 Kayseri, 1/4 Harput, 1/4 Sivas.
actually the armenians from kayseri region are very loyal to their small village. you will never hear them say "yes gesaratsi em" (ben kayseriliyim) -
I only said it that way because I am talking to you. instead we name small villages such as everek, fenese, comakli, tomarza, efkere, and so on. none
of the other armenians are like this. for example my mother's grandfather was born in huseynik but he called himself "kharpertsi" (harputlu).
thank you again for all your assistance
TESEKKUR EDERIM
HARTUN (Harutyun Kizilyan)
|
|
|
DivanMakam
Oud Addict
Posts: 41
Registered: 4-28-2015
Member Is Offline
|
|
Hello,
no problem (bir şey değil).
Well Gesi Bağları is a very folkloristic song and has over hundred strophes. I assume while time past, it went through many transformations
in lyrics and in melody. And this particular one is one of them.
Thank you for clarifying and explaining your connection. Very interesting and I now understand why you were looking for help. This culture/songs etc.
mean a lot to you. So I'm glad, I could help.
Actually, what you are saying with that you are from Fenese, and not Kayseri, is very, very, very Anatolian.
It is typical for Turks (Anatolians) to say the district of the city they are from (and also the village) and not the city name. Like you do. I guess
Armenians from Kayseri have been keeping this tradition whereas the other ones already forgot it and just name the city.
I am just someone who can speak Turkish, so I am not a linguist or musicologist. Just, if there are other things related to Turkish, you are (and also
the others) welcomed. I'll try to help as best as I can. So if you need help with other songs or translations, just open a thread or pm me.
|
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
