jboutros
Oud Admirer
Posts: 4
Registered: 11-22-2016
Member Is Offline
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My oud teacher scammed me
Hi everyone,
I'm a long time member but I haven't really participated much on the forum. I'm at a point where I hope someone can offer me advice. My wife got me
lessons with an oud teacher for Christmas a couple years ago (someone who is a well known figure in the oud community but I won't name him). We did 4
lessons over phone due to covid restrictions and I have to say it was not as positive of an experience as I expected. The lessons did not have much
structure and he was always in a rush. I felt like it made me NOT want to play my oud instead of encouraging me. After we finished the 4 lessons he
convinced me to keep learning with him and to purchase another 10 lessons so I paid the $500 in full and thought we would continue. He did a couple
lessons that were just as erratic and after that is when the problems started. He would schedule a lesson with me but then cancel right before we were
scheduled to meet. Multiple attempts to keep going with the lessons turned into months with no lessons. I also was busy too with a lot going on in
life but we had talked multiple times and he assured me we would get back on track. Earlier this year I broke my left index finger and was not able to
play so I told him I would wait for it to heal and then reach out to him. After reaching out a couple times he did not even reply back to me. I
brought up the idea of a refund and it seemed to make the situation worse. I messaged him again this week and no answer again. At this point I feel
very cheated as I am out $400 and he is ghosting me. I'm reaching out to see if this has happened to any one and if they have any advice on how to
proceed? Short of putting him on blast on social media I don't have any other ideas...
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Tulis
Oud Addict
Posts: 46
Registered: 12-2-2018
Member Is Offline
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I'm really sorry.
I also have very negative experiences from teachers in Oud.
They are not about money, but about very poor mentality, behavior, respect and consistency.
In your case you have everything up plus the pecuniary suspension. It's sad.
Because of that and it concerns money, my opinion is to publish his name.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2939
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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That is unfortunate, and I'm sorry to hear you are dealing with this.
As a teacher myself, I understand both how it's not always a good fit (every teacher and every student is different, we're all just regular people
after all) and that scheduling can be a challenge (especially when the student has a day job and the teacher is an active performer as well).
Another factor I've encountered is that many of the most impressive musicians actually learned music really quickly/easily due to their exceptioonal
talents and/or they learned so young that they don't really remember how they got to where they are, so they may not be sympathetic or helpful in
helping "regular people" learn to play and overcome difficulties. They may have a curriculum but no real way to resolve issues if someone doesn't
just "get it" naturally.
Before naming the teacher publicly, perhaps you can seek intercession from an intermediary - someone else in the community that knows the musician or
that they might respect? Of course you shouldn't have to do this but maybe you can find a resolution this way.
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jboutros
Oud Admirer
Posts: 4
Registered: 11-22-2016
Member Is Offline
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Thank you both for your sincere replies. I appreciate your input, and I know it's a difficult situation to give advice on as it's an uncomfortable
predicament. Overall, I am trying to avoid making it public as settling private matters in a public setting has never felt to be in good taste in my
opinion. Even though he did not answer me, I may give the benefit of the doubt and let him know in one more message that I would plan on sharing my
experience more as a warning to other potential students who wouldn't want to deal with a risk of losing money like this. Then, I would see if he
responds to that.
After that I could consider your option, Brian, in reaching out to an intermediary who knows him. That sounds like a reasonable option that is not
going to damage anyone's reputation in the community.
Thank you
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2939
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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You're welcome. This is a difficult situation.
Personally, I would reach out to someone before saying that I would share the experience publicly.
While what you are saying is not unreasonable, it might come across as a threat and be more likely to be perceived as hostile, so that might be best
as a last resort. At least that would be my approach.
The oud world can be surprisingly small, it shouldn't be too hard to find someone who knows him personally or professionally.
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Tulis
Oud Addict
Posts: 46
Registered: 12-2-2018
Member Is Offline
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I'm against it.
So if he promises to pay you back, then you'll be fine?
And what of his act ?
It will continue to treat other people in the same way with dishonesty, inconsistency and leave a black imprint on all people who will lie to them.
And my question is this : why protecting his own reputation is more important than protecting many people from the humiliation and ridicule they will
experience with him.
Is it better for many people to suffer than for one to ruin their reputation? He's ruining his reputation by himself.
You protect people.
You tell the truth with real facts.
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jboutros
Oud Admirer
Posts: 4
Registered: 11-22-2016
Member Is Offline
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Brian, now that you mention it, I would agree and I think that is the wiser way to approach this and probably the better order. Thank you
Tulis, I would agree with you, we must have a set of expectations and principles that we should adhere to. And in an ideal world people should always
be held accountable for their actions especially if someone is paying money for a service and expects a certain level of professionalism. However,
life has taught me it's not always fair, and sometimes it's OK to give someone the benefit of the doubt. I am going to try to my best to settle the
problem peacefully, but I will also make him aware that he should not treat students like this. That way he can learn his lesson in private, thus
preventing future students from having my situation arise, and the teacher would not have a tainted reputation in the oud community (sometimes the mob
rule can get out of hand). This is what I would consider a win-win for everyone. You're right in saying however that if this behavior continues, his
own reputation would be ruined by himself.
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coolsciguy
Oud Junkie
Posts: 249
Registered: 5-14-2020
Location: Washington D.C.
Member Is Offline
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I have had a number of wonderful instructors for Oud and Setar over the past few years and scheduling has always been the main challenge of online
learning with them. I have accepted it as part of the process now and don't get frustrated when we can't schedule a session (or when my instructors
don't deliver teaching material on a timely manner).
But getting scammed like this is a whole other level and I am sorry this happened to you. You deserve better and I hope you can resolve this issue
with your instructor.
-- Amir
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wally1212
Oud Maniac
Posts: 56
Registered: 2-12-2014
Member Is Offline
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Put him on blast!
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
Posts: 771
Registered: 4-26-2009
Location: Beacon, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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Please tell us who, we love the gossip!
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jboutros
Oud Admirer
Posts: 4
Registered: 11-22-2016
Member Is Offline
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Hahaha thank you for all the funny responses! I just wanted to update everyone that I finally had a conversation with my teacher, we will be talking
about the issues in the week to come. I hope it's a productive conversation but I will keep you all posted. Thank you once again for your input and
advice!
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