Monty88
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playing cretan lyra/klasik kemence
Hi guys,
I have taken interest in the cretan lyra and klasik kemence lately as well. I had the chance to meet Ross Daly about six months ago when he came to
Adelaide. He showed me a few things on sazi, but his lyra playing was just unbelievable. He came over for a jam with a friend of mine who plays in his
band, and we talked about the related lyra instruments. I'm possibly going to greece at the end of the year, and would like to pick up one of each
instrument, plus a cretan laouto, if i can afford it!
How much does a good, playable, half professional cretan lyra or klasik kemence cost?
Any more pics or soundfiles much appreciated!
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spyros mesogeia
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Dear friend,
Here in Greece most of the classical kemences-Lyra Politiki are handmade,if you wish contact me and I can send you a pricelist
Best Regards
Spyros Koliavasilis
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kasos
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Hi Monty!
Forgive me if I go on at some length, this is a topic that I've been quite interested in for a while now.
I'm very jealous of your personal contact with Ross Daly, who literally sets the world standard on the lyra, and is a pivotal person in terms of
teaching and bringing top quality musicians together. And best of luck on your eastern mediterranean bowed-string buying expedition. I wish I
was in a position to make a similar trip soon, it would have made many things a lot easier....There's no substitute to actually being there when
trying to choose the best possible instrument.
I've seen Spyros's website, and there are some fine looking instruments there. By all means, check the site, and then the store out in person, if
you've got the chance.
I've noted that many of the oud makers in Turkey either make, or can find classic kemence fairly readily. Several of them are regular visitors to
this site (it seems to me Haluk is one), and perhaps you can get into contact with one or more of them, to give yourself some other options, if
required.
Price is a very sensitive issue, and, being contingent on many variables, can vary widely. Quotes I have received at various points over the last
six months for a luthier class instrument (for the time being, I'm not making much of a distinction between lyra and kemence, since prices seem to be
roughly similar) have ranged between the $600-$1500 US range, though I'm sure they could legitimately go higher for high-end instruments, or
particularly good makers. Another complicating factor is ornament. There is a venerable tradition of carving the headstock, and, especially in
the case of the older, more rustic lyras, the back of the instrument. Ornament has never been a priority for me, but I recognize that it can affect
the price that can be reasonably charged for the instrument. Spyros's web site very practically advertises both ornamented and non ornamented
kemence, so this is another reason to pay it special attention. For comparison purposes, there are also pictures of (highly ornamented) lyra in
various stages of construction at a New York City luthier's website, diodinos.com. Don't know what the latter would charge, couldn't get a quote by
an E-mail request ....
If you're not particular, at this stage, about getting a luthier class instrument, and are ready to explore the low end, well....I've been tracking
lyra and kemence on E-bay and the internet since November, 2004. Over that period of time, only approximately half a dozen lyra have appeared for
sale, at intermittent and unpredictable intervals. For $200 US, I grabbed the second of these (being in a rather remote location and completely
unsure of when my next chance would be). It has a maker label, with an address on Crete, but I think it would fairly be described as a student
model. It's quite playable, and, like most lyras, puts out a lot of sound for its size. It suits my purposes for now, though I'm definitely
interested in an eventual upgrade. As for the others, any that were advertised by the sellers as Cretan Lyras, sold for more than mine, usually in
the $300 to $350 US range. The only case of a lower price (almost a crime, really) involved a seller in England, who had a lyra which some poor
soul had decided to paint blue (the Greek national color?). The bridge was gone, and the best the otherwise uninformed seller could do (he probably
picked it up at an estate or even a garage sale) was to assume it was some sort of small plucked lute, and advertise it as such. If memory serves,
it sold for about $35.00 US.
Kemence are a different story. The internet is rife with very low end kemence, with several sellers advertising them for under $100.00 US. Having
never actually played one of these, I can't say whether they are worth the very modest investment - you have to wonder, though. Right this second,
there's a seller trying a two for one deal on E-bay, where $80.00 or so US would get you a small kemence with surface blemishes, together with an
Egyptian made 5 string harp. Hmmm....Luthier class really does seem attractive, if you're going to the Middle east, anyway...
Speaking of luthiers, and since you're in Australia, why not also check Peter Biffin out? His website, spikefiddle.com (if memory serves), showcases
his own unique variant of lyras, and other types of kemence, including the central asian spike fiddle. Ross Daly plays, and has commissioned, some
of Peter's instruments, which tells me a fair bit about their quality.
Finally, you might want to consider other types of Middle Eastern bowed strings as well. There is a type that features a gourd resonator covered by
hide, which is much used in Turkey and by the Armenian community, which also goes by the name of kemence (or kemenche, or kemance, etc.). There's
another type native to the Black sea area which is a different shape and construction altogether, being entirely wood, but shaped almost like an
appalachian dulcimer. Both of these are also regularly available on E-bay, for modest (under $100.00 US) prices, though, again, quality may be an
issue.
Lastly, if you're inclined to try something fun for a real pittance, and live in that part of the world anyway, you might want to consider getting a
Thai or Indonesian bowed rebab (though they go by different regional names, you'll recognize them by their wood covered coconut resonating case-
coconuts being also used for rebabs in Egypt, I understand, though it's more common to find an Egyptian rebab with a hide top). I got a sample of
what seems to be the Thai version for about $5.00 on EBay from a seller in the US midwest who had no idea what it was. You might have to change
some strings, or get a new bow (my rebab sounds better, at least to me, with a somewhat heavier bow than the one it came with), but at a low enough
price, why not experiment? Considering the simplicity of the design, these rustic rebabs can be surprisingly resonant, and you'd have the
satisfaction of experiencing something that must be very close to the original item, historically speaking, in terms of bowed string sound. I've also
had great fun hand carving a variety of different bridge designs, each of which changes the sound significantly....
By the way, Spyros's website advertises what must be a very high end, luthier version of the Egyptian form of the rebab (I'm sure he's using wood,
rather than a coconut). It must sound wonderful, and I look forward to hearing, on an in person basis, one of his creations one day. Need I
mention that Ross Daly also plays rebab (is there any bowed instrument he doesn't play)?.
Take care, Mark/Kasos
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Monty88
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bowed instruments
Hi kasos,
Yes I am aware of Peter Biffin's instruments. When Ross was here, I had a chance to try out the instrument called the Tarhu, which is heavily inspired
by the Yayli Tambur. That is a fantastic instrument, and incredibly versatile. Sadly, they start at 5000 Australian dollars. I did have a regular
metal-bodied yayli tanbur here for a while, which I bought back from melbourne for a friend. I learned to handle that instrument fairly well, and look
to get one for myself soon.
I have an egyptian rebaba, which is a small spike fiddle, and it's not that playable. Thats the only bowed thing I own. But i hope to own something
else soon, as instruments like lyra and kemence add a great amount of depth the middle eastern music sound. If it's all plucked strings or winds, it
can sound a little shallow, so I'd like to add some bowed strings in.
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spyros mesogeia
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Dear friends,
I am sure that the sound is the most important thing in the quality of the instrument,
Here is an attachment
Regards to all
Spyros Koliavasilis
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kasos
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Hi Monty
Sounds to me like you are looking for a kemence for all the right reasons - Without wanting to discount the rebaba in any way, if you are looking for
a full bodied sound to thicken an ensemble texture, it's a pretty good bet that obtaining a lyra or kemence will help you get it more efficiently.
All the best with your playing, and with your shopping trip....
And thanks to Spyros for the sound clip - I look forward to listening to it presently....
Mark/kasos
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